Spoilers Shogun 2024

[Paul Farquhar]

I thought they left the door open to a sequel, even though the book doesn’t have one. Blackthorne got back to London, even though Toranaga, who is always right, didn’t think he would. So what changed?

 

[Stalker0]

I thought they left the door open to a sequel, even though the book doesn’t have one. Blackthorne got back to London, even though Toranaga, who is always right, didn’t think he would. So what changed?

I think the fact taht he still held the cross is the answer...that old version of himself was a dream.

Now is it possible he went to the bottom of that lake and found the cross, sure its possible. But I think its more likely meant to show that in reality he had to start letting Mariko go, vs the fantasy where he still held on.

 

[payn]

I think the fact taht he still held the cross is the answer...that old version of himself was a dream.

Now is it possible he went to the bottom of that lake and found the cross, sure its possible. But I think its more likely meant to show that in reality he had to start letting Mariko go, vs the fantasy where he still held on.

Well, it could just be another rosary too. Its not that unique of an item. I think the "Grampa's sword has chunks missing" line indicates that John did at some point engage in battle. Toronaga appears to forbid Blackthorn from leaving Japan, but there is no reason to believe the political situation couldn't change where having additional European allies would be prudent.

If you examine the stories of William Adams you can see the template for Blackthrone. Adams eventually became a tradesmen between Asia and the East Indies. So, its possible an elder Blackthorn could be back in English territory at his passing and reunited with his family.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

A rosary would be a dangerous thing to possess in England at that time. He would arrive back to find James I on the throne, and even more severe anti-catholic purges in the wake of the gunpowder plot (1605).

 

[Kaodi]

Creative Assembly must be looking real hard at advancing to making Shogun 3 right now. Incredible as it may sound more time has passed since the release of Shogun to than passed between the releases of Shogun 1 and Shogun 2. Amazing show, amazing performances.

 

[CapnZapp]

Greetings!

Anybody catch the premier last night on FX and Hulu? About twenty years ago I got the original series on netflix DVD by mail and it was...well it was made in the 80s. I dont recall it being culturally insensitive, just cheesy like a west meets east soap opera. However, this new series is a take produced and written with Japanese Americans so it should be interesting. I thought it was executed well, looks fantastic, and i'm now sold for the entire ride.

Anyone else?

Yes. Lots of elses! This was extremely brilliant.

 

[CapnZapp]

I thought they left the door open to a sequel, even though the book doesn’t have one. Blackthorne got back to London, even though Toranaga, who is always right, didn’t think he would. So what changed?

No. No sequel, no returning to London, Mariko remains dead. All just a dream.

 

[Stalker0]

I do think the ending might be somewhat upsetting for some western viewers (what that's it!!!), but I also think this is a difference with eastern vs western storytelling.

One thing I've noticed is that western cultures tend to like stories that "complete". There's a true beginning, middle, and end... the characters complete their work and then perhaps move on unto a new journey.

With eastern cultures, I've noticed there is more taste for the notion that "and the story continues". Many older Japanese anime for example don't really have a true "ending" as westerners appreciate it. They deal with something, perhaps learn something, but then they just continue the journey without any real closure for the characters. I think modern anime has more definitive endings partly because of the growing western audiences.

Now again this is a blanket statement, there are japanese stories with definitive endings, and western stories without one....but on the whole its a trend I've noticed.

The ending of Shogun feels much more like a traditional Japanese story. We get an inkling of what might happen with the Anjin and Toranaga but its not definitive, the story just ends right before this next pivotal moment. We are left in some ways just like Yabusage, we will never get to the see the final battle, or Anjin commanding a ship, or the thousand moments to follow. Several characters like the captain of the black ship or the sailing frenemy of the anjin's....we never know their fate....etc.

 

[payn]

I do think the ending might be somewhat upsetting for some western viewers (what that's it!!!), but I also think this is a difference with eastern vs western storytelling.

One thing I've noticed is that western cultures tend to like stories that "complete". There's a true beginning, middle, and end... the characters complete their work and then perhaps move on unto a new journey.

With eastern cultures, I've noticed there is more taste for the notion that "and the story continues". Many older Japanese anime for example don't really have a true "ending" as westerners appreciate it. They deal with something, perhaps learn something, but then they just continue the journey without any real closure for the characters. I think modern anime has more definitive endings partly because of the growing western audiences.

Now again this is a blanket statement, there are japanese stories with definitive endings, and western stories without one....but on the whole its a trend I've noticed.

The ending of Shogun feels much more like a traditional Japanese story. We get an inkling of what might happen with the Anjin and Toranaga but its not definitive, the story just ends right before this next pivotal moment. We are left in some ways just like Yabusage, we will never get to the see the final battle, or Anjin commanding a ship, or the thousand moments to follow. Several characters like the captain of the black ship or the sailing frenemy of the anjin's....we never know their fate....etc.

Yeap. I have had a few conversations with friends and colleagues that feel exactly as you say here. Not a definite ending, wanted to see the big battle, what happens to Blackhorn? I really enjoyed the exposition filled finale myself. I think it definitely ends as much as it needs to. I think this scene was for them;

I think back to the Lord of the Rings release. Fellowship at the theater I recall some folks complaining that the story just left us hanging. Surely they knew this was a three part story? Even then, they seemed annoyed by the lack of definitive conclusion. I dont feel any thread is left hanging, but there could be more Shogun story if there needs to be. Reminds me of how eastern culture is more high context in communication style compared to a low context west.

 

[RangerWickett]

A recommendation I saw was that they should next adapt the novel Musashi, which basically picks up during the battle the happens off screen at the end of this show.

Sure, it's got a very different vibe, but it's more samurai drama from the era of they want to use the props and staff and such.