Saving throw to fall prone

[Hypersmurf]

If forced movement would cause a creature to fall over a pit or precipice, or to enter hindering terrain (arguably including squares subject to conjurations such as Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier, or zones that deal damage or restrict movement), he gains a saving throw to fall prone at the edge of the square before entering.

There doesn't appear to be any restriction on using forced movement on a prone creature. If someone trips over, I can still use Thunderwave to shove him around.

So, someone is adjacent to hindering terrain, and I use a power that can push them 5 squares; the first square I attempt to move them into is hindering terrain, they make their save, and fall prone.

Is the power expended, or is 1 square of movement expended?

If movement remains, can I use another square of movement to attempt to force them into the hindering terrain again, provoking another saving throw?

-Hyp.

 

[underfoot]

Under Falling / Catching Yourself (pg. 284,285 in PHB) it states that if you make the saving throw the forced movement ends.

You fall prone at the edge, in the last square you occupied before you would have fallen. The forced movement ends.

 

[AuraSeer]

My understanding is that the target stops moving when he falls prone. I don't have a page reference in front of me at the moment, though.

If it worked the other way, then the target would have to make 5 consecutive saves to avoid being shoved over the cliff (or into the lava pool or whatever). That seems a bit too strong to me, even considering that forced movement in 4E is supposed to be powerful.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Under Falling / Catching Yourself (pg. 284,285 in PHB) it states that if you make the saving throw the forced movement ends.

Ah! Thanks - I checked Forced Movement in both the PHB and DMG and didn't find an answer. Didn't check under Falling!

-Hyp.

 

[Wyrd One]

So if someone is already prone and you use forced movement to push them to the edge of cliff and beyond, do they get a save, or are they already prone and therefore can't use falling prone as a means to halt their momentum?

 

[eamon]

So if someone is already prone and you use forced movement to push them to the edge of cliff and beyond, do they get a save, or are they already prone and therefore can't use falling prone as a means to halt their momentum?

Good question. I suppose both ways could be reasonable, though I'd very mildly lean towards no save - unless someone has a relevant rule section? It strikes me as reasonable that you'd be at a disadvantage when you're prone.

 

[calypso15]

So if someone is already prone and you use forced movement to push them to the edge of cliff and beyond, do they get a save, or are they already prone and therefore can't use falling prone as a means to halt their momentum?

I see nothing to indicate that prone creatures can't make saving throws to avoid going over a cliff. They just become prone (which they already are).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I see nothing to indicate that prone creatures can't make saving throws to avoid going over a cliff. They just become prone (which they already are).

It fundamentally doesn't make sense that you can make a saving throw, which essentially benefits you, to acquire a condition which you already have acquired. Logic, too, dictates that if you've fallen down, you can't re-fall-down without getting up.

This looks like a job for customer service, to me.

 

[deleteme123456]

I would tend to agree... if you're prone, you're SOL if you're being pushed. Maybe allow a saving throw at -5 or something to grab the edge of the cliff... then watch out for the next guy who decides to roll STR VS FORT to stomp on your fingers and sent you plummeting...

 

[WhatGravitas]

Logic, too, dictates that if you've fallen down, you can't re-fall-down without getting up.

On the other hand, you could argue that once you're knocked down, you can try to hang on with hands and feet, giving you a chance to resist the movement, hence you get a saving throw.

For example at a cliff, you don't have to catch it any more, just to hang on - so it's easier (because you already have grabbed something), but also harder (because you cannot throw yourself down to slow you and because you must bear the full grunt of the attack at once) - cancelling each other out, giving you the normal saving throw.

Cheers, LT.