Revenge of the Iron Lich

[Mercurius]

Anyone run this? It looks uber-deadly but very fun. I have a group of players with 16th level characters and we're looking for a short transition adventure. Most of them are rather slow and casual in game style, so I'm not sure the "Fourthcore" approach will go over well but I think they'll enjoy the challenge of it.

I'm trying to think of ways to change it slightly to accommodate our group. I'm thinking of taking away the four hour time limit, or at least increasing it to six hours and two sessions. I'm also thinking of changing the nature of the adventure so that it is a kind of "real dream" and when they die (which they will), the are "reborn" and have to start again and keep on doing it until the complete it. That might get tedious, though.

Any thoughts?

 

[Mr. Wilson]

The dungeon is pretty deadly. The party I ran it for died well before even making it to the final boss (I think the last two died at the base of the Pyramid).

If you want to run it, I'd suggest doing it as a one shot. Something fun that has no effect on your campaign. Most players don't like the "It was all a dream" idea, but you know your players best.

 

[Mercurius]

I guess what I'm wondering is whether it is easy to make it a bit less deadly. I'd like to really challenge the players and have them use their primary characters, although our campaign is more episodic than it is a metaplot, so it wouldn't really be interrupting anything.

 

[Knowledge Checks]

I've run it twice, for different groups. My advice is to have them make new characters specifically for this dungeon and to run it straight (not changing it to make it easier).

I wouldn't recommend throwing it into your regular campaign because if they're not serious optimizers they will probably all die. I also don't like the "it was all a dream" but your group may.

Also, be sure to overemphasize how deadly the dungeon is. I thought I had properly explained the difficulty to the second group, but a few rooms into the dungeon and there was much cursing and gnashing of teeth. What I realized is that the players assumed (and fairly so) that even though it was supposedly really hard, it was designed along standard WoTC 4e design rules.

It's not. It specifically breaks the design rules and incorporates things to increase the danger that aren't found in WoTC 4e design. So that was my mistake, but once the players realized that they got into the swing of it. If you explain that beforehand I think they'll have a better idea of what they're getting into.

 

[renau1g]

I also don't like the "it was all a dream" but your group may.

This. Early on in my DM'ing I had the players in combat to start the session after we'd roll up characters, I didn't explain anything outside of the combat, which was a certain TPK. The players fought but all fell to the OP'd BBEG and after much cursing I had them "wake up" and realize it was all a dream (or vision). They (rightly) asked why we'd wasted over an hour of time fighting if we were supposed to die, why not just narrate it and move on, save a ton of time and dice rolling.

I think running this adventure with that technique may weaken it a bit, it's supposed to be deadly, it's supposed to be unfair (much like the original Tomb of Horrors was). Getting to respawn also removes a lot of the verisimilitude from the world (unless every time they die this happens).

I'd echo others and say a one shot, you can be a rat basterd DM and as long as you're upfront about it, I'd think they should have fun, or at least enjoy a change of pace from "normal" 4e adventures.

 

[Saagael]

I've run this adventure 3 times so far (all for conventions) and love it. This kind of dungeon won't fit well into an ongoing game with how deadly it is. However, there are a few things you an do to make it work. Here's what I suggest.

I like the idea of upping the time limit, but do not remove it. If you remove the time limit the puzzles become just stumbling blocks as the PCs spend a half hour trying to figure them out. 5 hours should be enough for a decent group to get through it.

The adventure comes with a built-in mechanism for dealing with dead PCs: they become ghosts that can help out 1/encounter. There are also ways of bringing back these dead PCs: there's the Goddess of Fate that grants a Wish spell if the players put the broken holy symbol (random item, but consider giving it to them for free) in the wooden box from the treasure horde in the obelisk. There's also the lich-ification sarcophagus, which I decided would work even on dead PCs (brings them back with no surges, and hit points).

Consider making it so that if the PCs complete the adventure, all dead PCs are brought back somehow. Only if there's a TPK do the PCs stay dead.

Tone done the save-or-die effects, and adventure-long effects. Effects on the deck of mortals, or the traps, or the monsters that have adventure-long effects should be toned down. Instead of blinded for the adventure, the PC takes -10 to perception and grants combat advantage. Instead of turning to a statue of pure gold, the PC is slowed until the end of the adventure.

The skill challenge with the skeleton should be toned down (IIRC, if any PCs are bloodied, he kills them all). Not sure how you run skill challenges so I'll leave this up to you.

For the final encounter, I'd tone down the Necromancer Congregation and Lich Robot thing to be elites, instead of solos, and then severely tone down the powers of the Iron lich (power word Kill, flesh to steel, etc). I don't know how capable your group is so I can't say how much to tone it down.

The last option for running this as part of a campaign (which I'm doing soon) is to run it at level 26 or higher, with only slight changes in numbers. At that level the players can cheat death and are really powerful, and can take on such challenges. I'll be doing this when my group hits level 28 in a few months.

Hope this helps!

 

[Unwise]

I have been foreshadowing this adventure for a long time now. My two players are on a quest to kill the Iron Lich, but they know they are nowhere near powerful enough to face him or his lair yet.

They are currently a couple of levels too low for it but have access to his secret lair and are chaffing at the bit to take him out. They have wisely decided to wait at least a couple of levels though.

In my campaign it will be run as more of a MMO style raid though. They are in charge of a significant fighting force of companion NPCs. The idea will be that the two PCs are joined by a whole bunch of companion NPCs. The objective will be to get to the boss having lost as few of them as possible.

The NPCs are similtaniously assaulting the Iron Lich's fortress. The PCs can divert more forces from there to come and join them, but if they do, the assault will fair more poorly.

The good thing is that the NPCs all have character and long histories with the PCs. Their deaths will be felt as more than just "losing the thief". This works well, as I can play up the deadly nature of the place, with real consequences, but allow them to keep playing. Traps that outright kill a player will tend to hit an NPC.

They are also joined by a cleric who is capable of ressurecting the fallen. In my campaign that is a very rare thing and only used in exceptional circumstances.

The other good thing about having NPCs along is that if the PCs fall, I can continue the campaign as their assault becomes a route and they are forced to retreat. The NPCs can drag the PCs bodies with them and get them raised. The price of failure can therefore be paid without ending the campaign.

That's the plan at least, but we all know that plans fall apart pretty readily, especially in fourthcore.

 

[Riastlin]

I ran this a while back for my ongoing campaign and was able to make it work pretty well by toning down some of the more powerful (read overpowered per 4ed rules) effects.

For the most part, I got rid of save or die style effects (or at least required multiple failed saves for death to occur). I altered the Deck of Mortals a bit to get rid of the more powerful effects (both good and bad). Finally, I pretty much scrapped the "adventure long" effects. This was done primarily because I didn't want to completely disrupt my campaign due to a hardcore dungeon, but liked it enough that I wanted to work it into the story rather than using it as a one shot.

In the end, the party fared pretty well. They handled the challenges pretty well (and having an Avenger with massive perception helped a lot). The got the puzzles for the most part and avoided a couple of potential pitfalls. Only one player was willing to draw from the deck and he got a positive result. The biggest problem the group ran into was the wraith fight because it seriously drained the swordmage of surges to the point that she had to be real careful in the final battle.

They never did get to the obelisk's treasure hoard but they figured out the "shortcut" in the final battle which obviously made things a lot easier for them. All in all I would say that they were pretty sharp and I still left the adventure more difficult than normal but didn't give them a whole lot of warning (other than "none ever return after going there").

So I would definitely say that its doable, but I agree with the others that if you want to run it "as is" its probably better done as a one-shot or as a straight up vignette. The "it was all a dream" thing can be a bit cheesy. However, I suppose its possible to have other outs that can maybe be used to further the story of the campaign. When Calaystryx mopped the floor with the party, I had the Raven Queen intervene since Calaystryx was causing an entire town to turn undead, including a raven, etc. and the party seemed to be the only ones attempting to do anything about it. As a result, the Raven Queen has become a major theme in the campaign even though that was never intended initially. So its certainly possible, but you need to be careful. Even in my scenario, the players left thinking that there was "no way to win", which wasn't really true, they just ran into a bunch of bad luck and a couple of blunders that really turned the fight against them really quickly. As a general rule, players will not like it if they feel as though events are being forced upon them which is why I would recommend caution.

 

[willowx]

When we played this, we knew going in that it was going to be an uberdungeon, so we wracked our brains to make the most uberbroken party we could, and came up with a Radiant Mafia featuring an Invoker Morninglord, a broken Battlemind with a radiant weapon, a Ranger, multiclass to paladin with Pervasive Light, and the Professor, a bard trained in as many skills as possible, to deal with traps and take the lead in any skill challenges we might face, and a Shaman uberhealer.
We blew through the combats- the last one was looking a little tough, but we scraped by. We got the 2nd best ending, and probably would have gotten the best one if we had time to fully explore the place.

It's a great dungeon, but I feel it's best approached on its own terms.