Revenance + Revivify

[borc killer]

So. The rogue found himself (yet again) on the wrong end of some fire giant axes and died to fare away for the cleric to be able to revivify him. So the paladin used revenance to bring him back to ‘life’ and minutes later when the rogue died again (and after the fight) the cleric revivified him. Legal? Is the mandatory death at the end of revenance a ‘death effect’?

Revenance (pg 175 SC): Target is brought back to life as raise dead for a short time with half hit points. “She is alive (not undead) for the duration of the spell and can be healed normally, but dies as soon as the spell ends.”

Revivify (pg 176 SC): Target is brought back to life as raise dead but does not loose any exp, but must be cast within one round of the targets death. MC 1,000gp.

Raise Dead: “A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell.”

All three spells are Conjuration (Healing), but this seems WAY to good even for a two spell combo. I let it slide last night but not so sure I want to keep this up.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Unfortunately, even though I agree that it's too good, I've yet to find any RAW argument against it. Sure, I can ban it in my own games, but I haven't been DMing recently. And anyway, I prefer being able to point to the rules.

 

[Mouseferatu]

OTOH, the use of revenance in a game did lead to a hysterically funny encounter with a beholder. Since revenance has a duration, it's subject to anti-magic, so we had this character who would drop every time the beholder looked at him with its main eye, pop up again when it closed it to use its eye rays or looked way, drop again when it turned back...

 

[frankthedm]

Disallow it if you would like, though IMHO if you are cool with revivfy's effect, the window should have been at least 2 rounds, maybe 3. Especially if Revivify replaces raised dead for the campaign.

That goes double if the main stay of the campaign are outdoor fights rather than dungeon crawls.

 

[Vorput]

Mm.... I wouldn't allow it. I think either spell is fine alone, but you're right- putting them together is just a free much cheaper raise dead, and wasn't what either spell intended.

I don't think I'd make Revenance into a death effect- since raise dead should still work down the road... but hmm...

not sure of a real good solution, other than possibly just ruling that the revify spell NEEDS to take place directly after actual death, not the delayed death a revenance spell brings.

It doesn't have to make perfect sense, it is magic after all.

 

[glass]

I think (as a houserule), I would add a line to Revenance that said something like:

'For the purposes of spells or effects which must be applied within a certain time limit of death, the time limit runs from the end of the normal death not from the end of the Revenance spell unless the revivify spell was cast within one round of the normal death.'

That way, you can get a few extra rounds grace (which is cool), but can't use the combo any time for a free raise dead replacement (which isn't).


glass.

 

[FireLance]

I think it really boils down to how much you want death to hurt in your campaign.

If you want death to be significant, then it shouldn't work.

If you want death to be easily reversible (at least, within a few rounds of its occurence), then it should, and the interaction between revenance and revivify is a feature, not a bug.

 

[borc killer]

I think it really boils down to how much you want death to hurt in your campaign.

If you want death to be significant, then it shouldn't work.

If you want death to be easily reversible (at least, within a few rounds of its occurence), then it should, and the interaction between revenance and revivify is a feature, not a bug.

Yea it is a delicate balance issue, death should be hard but not crazy hard. The party is 17th level now so they have true rez... this just saves them 9,000gp... which was a nice money sink. Maybe i'll raise the price on Revivify to 5k... will see what the PCs think.

 

[Diirk]

Yea it is a delicate balance issue, death should be hard but not crazy hard. The party is 17th level now so they have true rez... this just saves them 9,000gp... which was a nice money sink. Maybe i'll raise the price on Revivify to 5k... will see what the PCs think.

If revenance brings them back to life as per raise dead, then it doesn't save 9k, it saves 4k. They still lose a level, overall. Alternatively, it costs the same gold as reincarnation, but doesn't potentially change their race. It doesn't really seem to be a problem to allow it.

 

[borc killer]

If revenance brings them back to life as per raise dead, then it doesn't save 9k, it saves 4k. They still lose a level, overall. Alternatively, it costs the same gold as reincarnation, but doesn't potentially change their race. It doesn't really seem to be a problem to allow it.

It acts as raise dead EXCPET they have not exp lose or con lose. Under most circumstances it is a true rez if it is cast within one round.