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Rest, Fatigue, and Sleep

Am I correct that if you don't get 8 hours of sleep (or 4 hours of Trance for an Elf), you are Fatigued?

I know you are Fatigued if you sleep in heavier armor, and arcane casters need 8 hours of sleep/4 hours of trance + 4 hours rest to be able to prepare spells. But what about other character classes?

Fatigued, no effect, or some other effect from insufficient sleep?

I've checked the PHB, DMG, and SRD, and if the rule exists, I missed it.

Thanks if you can help with a rule reference, or just your opinion.
 

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Greenfield

Adventurer
In the section on Conditions:

SRD said:
Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.

So yeah, Fatigue has an affect on other character classes than just Fighters and Arcane Casters.
 

I'm not asking what the effect of Fatigue is. I'm asking if/how other character classes are impacted by insufficient rest.

That is, if a character doesn't get "enough" sleep are they Fatigued? And how much is enough?

Or more specifically, my party has been running around all day literally fighting fires and in several different combats that lasted dozens of rounds each, basically fighting a battle that took 6 hours all together, 1 pm to sundown. They are going to be woken up at midnight after about 3 hour of sleep for some, none for those on the first watch. Should they be Fatigued?

If they go back to sleep after the next fight and get 5 hours of sleep until the next event, what about then?

Any rules help would be nice, or just what you'd do to wing it.
 
Last edited:

delericho

Legend
I'm not absolutely certain, but I think the rule doesn't actually exist - you need sleep to prepare spells (well, arcane casters) and to regain hit points, and there's a rule that if you sleep in armour then you become fatigued, but I don't think there's actually any rule that you actually need to sleep.

But IMC I would certainly apply that penalty: if you go 24 hours without sleep, you become fatigued.

(Incidentally, I looked up what Pathfinder had to say on the subject, and it appears that it too lacks a formal rule. Here's what I found.)
 


Celebrim

Legend
In general, an adult can get by just fine for fairly long periods with only limited rest before obtaining significant penalties. And yes, D20 really has no rules regarding sleep. As simple rule, yes, if you don't take 8 hours rest, you are fatigued. Forces the issue and isn't so blatantly unrealistic that you can't live with it.

If you really want to be realistic and gritty about this, the first symptom of sleep deprivation is not physical 'fatigue' per se, but mental fatigue. You might want to add a new condition that grants a very small penalty to intelligence and wisdom checks that represents a graduation between well rested and the more gross penalties of the 'fatigued' condition. The D20 'fatigued' condition is more appropriate to overexertion - for example, more than 8 hours of exercise per day, or prolonged periods of vigorous activity. It would in my opinion be more important to pay attention to what the party was doing with that extra time.

If my players decided to forgo some sleep but not all of it and work off of short days, I'd generally apply a very small penalty. My system as it stands makes it more important how comfortable your sleep is, than how much of it you get. That is, "Can you rest?", rather than "Do you get enough?" I've never worried to much about 'Is it enough' as no one has questioned attempting to rest taking a full 8 hours, so the following is straight out of my head without any testing.

8-6 hours rest per night: +1 cumulative penalty to endurance check needed to rest per hour under 8 hours. This penalty is reset whenever the character successfully rests for any length.
6-3 hours rest per night: +1 cumulative penalty to endurance check needed to rest per hour under 6 hours. This penalty is only reset if the character receives a successful rest of at least 8 hours.
3-0 hours rest per night: +2 penalty to endurance check needed to rest per hour under 3 hours rest. This penalty is only reset if the character receives a successful full 8 hour rest.
0 hours rest: You haven't attempted to rest at all. You therefore can't regain spells and are automatically fatigued.

Base endurance check to rest is DC 10, but a basic pallet (bedroll, straw, fur, etc.) and basic shelter (tent) bring that down to DC 6. Masterwork bedrolls and masterwork tents or hard shelter can bring it down to DC 3. There is also 'successfully pitched camp' bonus you can make with a DC 10 survival check to give everyone a +2 bonus on the check. Circumstance penalties for vermin (mosquitos, lice, fleas), moisture (sleeping the rain is not easy, and even tents can fail to keep you dry with enough rain), inclement temperatures (cold is likewise mitigated by blankets, furs or shelter), and wearing armor (armor check penalty) apply to the check.

So imagining a typical situation where a party made camp, pitched its tents, and everyone had a bedroll, it would be a DC 4 endurance check for each person to rest - trivial for typical healthy adventurers (about half my party can't fail that). If they decided to take a short rest of 6 hours per night, I'd just bump the DC up to 6. More telling would be what they wanted to do with that extra time. If they were trying to march 16 hours a day, that would be a much bigger deal and much more wearing on the party than simply getting 6 hours of sleep. But supposing the party wanted to go a long period on just 5 hours sleep (not sure when that would ever come up), there'd be like a +3 penalty the first night, +4 the second, +5 the third, etc. Eventually, it would get almost impossible to feel rested without taking a full 'rest day' to recuperate. Note that if the party was sleeping in a bed in an comfortable inn, it might take a fairly long time before that was true though.

(Well, for most of them. The PC 'paladin' of the god of travelers can basically ignore these problems, as he takes no penalty for forced marching and can deny something like the first 14 hours of needed sleep with no penalty at all. He can pretty much march at double time in armor for nearly 60 hours before even risking fatigue. He probably could walk 300 miles in two days, a superpower largely mitigated by the fact he'd be insane to split the party like that.)

Getting even an hour or two of sleep is actually a pretty big deal compared to getting none. None is hard. Napping even a short while has big benefits, as any soldier can tell you. Soldiers often go for days on 4 hours of sleep a night with only small penalties in alertness and vigor. Eventually, yes, this wears down even a healthy person but it takes a while and can be mostly reset by a single night of full sleep. Yes, eventually even this isn't enough to cure long periods of sleep deprivation but 'fatigue' is such a huge penalty in D20 that I think you'd not need to worry too much about metagaming sleep rules if you even had the threat of applying fatigue as a result of shortened rest.
 

gamerprinter

Mapper/Publisher
The way I run it is as its stated - each player is required 8 hours rest, if they don't get it they are fatigued, and suffer all the detriments of being fatigued. In my game it doesn't have to be 8 consecutive hours, it can be 4 and 4 or even 2, 2, 2, and 2 with a few hours of being awake in between, just 8 hours of rest in every 24.

If as you say your players have been putting out fires everywhere with a long day's hard work, and they've finally gotten to sleep, but 3 hours into they are forced awake - as long as they still have time in the same 24 hours to gain 8 hours of sleep, they aren't considered fatigued. Once they cross that 24 line, though, they are fully fatigued.
 

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