Quite a few people have pointed out the higher damage (D10 vs D8) or the strength penalty issue for bows but I disagree (kind of).
The obvious out of the way first:
A composite bow STR+1 is just flatout better/the same in basically every scenario, it's just a bit more consistent which for me personally feels better.
Ok check, done with the composite bow for the post, use a light crossbow with rapid reload feat for the comparison instead.
Assuming you have 1 attack per round and at least 1-2 rounds of other things to do in the fight, then granted the heavy repeating crossbow wins out on damage and reloading shouldn't be an issue (5-7 rounds of combat should cover most fights).
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But if you have 2 attacks per round repeating crossbow VERY likely just looses.
Let's keep the 7 rounds estimate for the fight:
Weapon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Shots/Round . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Total Damage
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (2 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 2 + 2 + 1) * 5.5 (average D10) = 55
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2) * 4.5 (average D8) = 63
To be entirely fair the 1. shot has a +5 higher attack bonus compared to the 2. so I will subtract 50% damage for the second shot per round assuming the second shot hits only 50% as often as the first one.
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (1 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 1) * 5.5 + (1 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 0) * 2.75 = 44
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1) * 4.5 + (1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1) * 2.25 = 47.25
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Quick addition to hit chances:
If you miss the same number of shots (missing 5 shots), it looks even worse for the repeating crossbow:
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . average damage per shot (5.5+2.75)/2 = 4,125 || 44 - 5 * 4,125 = 23.375
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .average damage per shot (4.5+2.25)/2 = 3.375 || 47.25 - 5 * 3.375 = 30.375
But if you miss the same percentage of shots (which would be expected) the Total Damage difference just decreases:
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . 50% of shots hit; Total Damage: 22
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .50% of shots hit; Total Damage: 23.625
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(I will continue using the 2. form of calculation with the notation of the 1. calculation to keep it shorter)
You spend 6 rounds of the fight using your crossbow:
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (2 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 2 + 2) => 38.5
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2) => 40.5
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And now assume you do not shoot the 1 remaining bolt but you reload one round earlier and you spend exactly 5 rounds of the fight using your crossbow. This is a very positive scenario for the repeating crossbow (practically best case if you have to reload):
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (2 + 2 + 0 + 2 + 2) => 33
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2) => 33.75
Light Crossbow still slightly ahead
but at this point it's basically even
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Using the crossbow for no more than 3 rounds per fight:
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (2 + 2 + 1) => 22
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(2 + 2 + 2) => 20,25
Yay, HRC claims the victory!
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And yes, of course the heavy rep bow is completely useless for characters with 3 or more attacks per round (compared to the alternatives).
If you want to use it for more than 2 rounds that is.
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So I guess what it comes down to is, as soon as you need to reload (during the fight) you're better of using something else and the damage claim doesn't hold up.
Even in the best case scenarios the HRC looses in fights >3 rounds/>5 shots. Then again looking at the miniscule differences, including misses, does it even matter?
I'd love to see my players use the repeating bows but as fair as I could possibly be in my assessment, the light crossbow still came out on top in most scenarios. The use cases for the repeating crossbows are just very niche. Do you have only 1 attack per round and/or do you not use the crossbow for more than 5 attacks/fight or do you need the slight range advantage for some reason? Then the HRC is a valid choice (coolness factor included). Any other scenario, as long as you need to spend a feat, get something else!
Based on this I'd even say it would be acceptable to house rule them as normal crossbows/simple weapons available to almost anyone (purely from a balance pov)....what? is it not ok for your crossbow characters to (sometimes) do as much damage as a normal unmodified longbow? At least this way they might get used. It will hurt short bow users though.
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Note: yes, I know that I'm 19 years late to the party.
Note 2: I also don't even play pathfinder, I play D&D 3.5
Note 3: Thanks for reading my TED talk
The obvious out of the way first:
A composite bow STR+1 is just flatout better/the same in basically every scenario, it's just a bit more consistent which for me personally feels better.
Ok check, done with the composite bow for the post, use a light crossbow with rapid reload feat for the comparison instead.
Assuming you have 1 attack per round and at least 1-2 rounds of other things to do in the fight, then granted the heavy repeating crossbow wins out on damage and reloading shouldn't be an issue (5-7 rounds of combat should cover most fights).
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
But if you have 2 attacks per round repeating crossbow VERY likely just looses.
Let's keep the 7 rounds estimate for the fight:
Weapon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Shots/Round . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Total Damage
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (2 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 2 + 2 + 1) * 5.5 (average D10) = 55
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2) * 4.5 (average D8) = 63
To be entirely fair the 1. shot has a +5 higher attack bonus compared to the 2. so I will subtract 50% damage for the second shot per round assuming the second shot hits only 50% as often as the first one.
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (1 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 1) * 5.5 + (1 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 0) * 2.75 = 44
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1) * 4.5 + (1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1) * 2.25 = 47.25
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Quick addition to hit chances:
If you miss the same number of shots (missing 5 shots), it looks even worse for the repeating crossbow:
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . average damage per shot (5.5+2.75)/2 = 4,125 || 44 - 5 * 4,125 = 23.375
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .average damage per shot (4.5+2.25)/2 = 3.375 || 47.25 - 5 * 3.375 = 30.375
But if you miss the same percentage of shots (which would be expected) the Total Damage difference just decreases:
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . 50% of shots hit; Total Damage: 22
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .50% of shots hit; Total Damage: 23.625
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
(I will continue using the 2. form of calculation with the notation of the 1. calculation to keep it shorter)
You spend 6 rounds of the fight using your crossbow:
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (2 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 2 + 2) => 38.5
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2) => 40.5
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
And now assume you do not shoot the 1 remaining bolt but you reload one round earlier and you spend exactly 5 rounds of the fight using your crossbow. This is a very positive scenario for the repeating crossbow (practically best case if you have to reload):
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (2 + 2 + 0 + 2 + 2) => 33
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2) => 33.75
Light Crossbow still slightly ahead
but at this point it's basically even______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Using the crossbow for no more than 3 rounds per fight:
Heavy Repeating Crossbow . . . . . . (2 + 2 + 1) => 22
Light Crossbow + Rapid Reload . . .(2 + 2 + 2) => 20,25
Yay, HRC claims the victory!
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
And yes, of course the heavy rep bow is completely useless for characters with 3 or more attacks per round (compared to the alternatives).
If you want to use it for more than 2 rounds that is.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
So I guess what it comes down to is, as soon as you need to reload (during the fight) you're better of using something else and the damage claim doesn't hold up.
Even in the best case scenarios the HRC looses in fights >3 rounds/>5 shots. Then again looking at the miniscule differences, including misses, does it even matter?
I'd love to see my players use the repeating bows but as fair as I could possibly be in my assessment, the light crossbow still came out on top in most scenarios. The use cases for the repeating crossbows are just very niche. Do you have only 1 attack per round and/or do you not use the crossbow for more than 5 attacks/fight or do you need the slight range advantage for some reason? Then the HRC is a valid choice (coolness factor included). Any other scenario, as long as you need to spend a feat, get something else!
Based on this I'd even say it would be acceptable to house rule them as normal crossbows/simple weapons available to almost anyone (purely from a balance pov)....what? is it not ok for your crossbow characters to (sometimes) do as much damage as a normal unmodified longbow? At least this way they might get used. It will hurt short bow users though.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Note: yes, I know that I'm 19 years late to the party.
Note 2: I also don't even play pathfinder, I play D&D 3.5
Note 3: Thanks for reading my TED talk
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