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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 217223" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>The subdual CDG option sounds like a good one. I like the "if they fail their fort save by 10 points or more, they still die--guess you hit them a little too hard" rule too.</p><p></p><p>As for the other option, there are a couple of options for allowing characters know that Wyatt is right when he says ". . .buy you'll die first."</p><p></p><p>1. Power critical. Use it with a heavy pick or a scythe. Add a small doses of power attack and bake until massive damage save applies. This could easily be done as part of a readied action.</p><p></p><p>2. Death Blow. This Sword and Fist feat makes CDG a standard action. It only works on helpless foes but it does allow the villain to say "Stop where you are or the girl gets it!" Even if the girl in question is a 15th level fighter immobilized by hold person (or str damage from poison), she's still got a good chance to die if the hero doesn't stop where he is (or if the villain decides to kill her anyway).</p><p></p><p>The auto crit if you surprise your opponent and can still hit after a hefty penalty isn't a good solution for the reasons already suggested. If the attack penalty is really high (-8 to -12), a low level attacker won't be able to hit anyway. High level characters already have ways of punishing surprised opponents (power critical, expert tactitian, opportunist, +6d6 sneak attack, etc). Furthermore, for high level characters who often have +18 to hit,(the lower the penalty, the lower the level at which this occurs), -8 to hit could be a laughable penalty in return for an autocrit. (Especially with high multiplier weapons and/or energy burst weapons).</p><p></p><p>I suspect that the previous poster is right and you should look for into the Iajitsu rules in OA if that's what you want. Normal 3e is more the kind of world where Sir Gawiane and some other knight fight from morning until sunset and Robin Hood deftly shoots the dastardly villain through the eye before he can draw his knife across the girl's throat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 217223, member: 3146"] The subdual CDG option sounds like a good one. I like the "if they fail their fort save by 10 points or more, they still die--guess you hit them a little too hard" rule too. As for the other option, there are a couple of options for allowing characters know that Wyatt is right when he says ". . .buy you'll die first." 1. Power critical. Use it with a heavy pick or a scythe. Add a small doses of power attack and bake until massive damage save applies. This could easily be done as part of a readied action. 2. Death Blow. This Sword and Fist feat makes CDG a standard action. It only works on helpless foes but it does allow the villain to say "Stop where you are or the girl gets it!" Even if the girl in question is a 15th level fighter immobilized by hold person (or str damage from poison), she's still got a good chance to die if the hero doesn't stop where he is (or if the villain decides to kill her anyway). The auto crit if you surprise your opponent and can still hit after a hefty penalty isn't a good solution for the reasons already suggested. If the attack penalty is really high (-8 to -12), a low level attacker won't be able to hit anyway. High level characters already have ways of punishing surprised opponents (power critical, expert tactitian, opportunist, +6d6 sneak attack, etc). Furthermore, for high level characters who often have +18 to hit,(the lower the penalty, the lower the level at which this occurs), -8 to hit could be a laughable penalty in return for an autocrit. (Especially with high multiplier weapons and/or energy burst weapons). I suspect that the previous poster is right and you should look for into the Iajitsu rules in OA if that's what you want. Normal 3e is more the kind of world where Sir Gawiane and some other knight fight from morning until sunset and Robin Hood deftly shoots the dastardly villain through the eye before he can draw his knife across the girl's throat. [/QUOTE]
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