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<blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 216599" data-attributes="member: 413"><p>Then how about this: If you do a subdual CdG, you do subdual damage, but if they fail their fort save(or maybe if they fail by a certain amount, like 10), they still die. So if you do enough to knock them out, they're unconscious, but if you over do it, you kill them accidently...oops! </p><p></p><p>More than that: </p><p>Standard action(so no full attack) which can be a big deal at higher levels</p><p></p><p>-4 to attack(which is a big deal at lower levels...but like I said, I'd be willing to make this -6 or even -10). Perhaps add a rule that this penalty is adjustable depending on the circumstances. So that in the course of most encounters, the DM can make it so difficult that it simply is not worth while. But in high drama situations, it can be done(both by PCs and NPCs). Also, the penalty applies to your critical threat role. </p><p></p><p>Target must be flat-footed, so this is a surprise round only thing.</p><p>You must be adjacent to your target if using a bow.</p><p></p><p>Provokes and AoO so any non-flatfooted enemies would get chance to stop you.</p><p></p><p>Most combats in my game begin with a surprise round, so in most cases, you wouldn't even be able to move to do this.</p><p></p><p>And he'd be giving up 3 other attacks, each of which could crit also. (unless he had the feats, but those are just theoretical). So you've got an easy shot and your attacks(using Rapid Shot) are +20/+20/+15/+10(or +22 w/ a single attack). You have an opponent who was suprised and you beat him in init in the first full round. You could do critical strike with a +18(or +16 or +12) and do 3X damage(and give any nearby foes a free attack) or do a full attack and have a good chance of dealing 4x or even more damage. </p><p></p><p>But you can use power attack anytime, not just the first round of combat.</p><p></p><p>I know what a crit can do. I had a 6th level fighter w/ a greataxe deal something like 68 points of damage on a crit. That's the point. There are certain high drama situations where someone _should_ be able to kill a potential foe outright.</p><p></p><p>Not too concerned with "logic". A few games ago, my character was fleeing from some foes. He jumped from a height of 80' height, jumped up and continued running...He is now know as the dwarven meteor! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's why I posted here. To get feedback. So...given that it can only be done to flatfooted opponents, provokes an AoO, is a Standard Action so it forces you to give up a full attack if you are doing it in a normal round, etc...what penalty to the attack roll would you think would be high enough to make it rarely worth while, but low enough to make it sometimes worth while? Can you think of anyother drawbacks to tack on? Maybe a penalty to your AC for a round?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Uller, post: 216599, member: 413"] Then how about this: If you do a subdual CdG, you do subdual damage, but if they fail their fort save(or maybe if they fail by a certain amount, like 10), they still die. So if you do enough to knock them out, they're unconscious, but if you over do it, you kill them accidently...oops! [b][/b] More than that: Standard action(so no full attack) which can be a big deal at higher levels -4 to attack(which is a big deal at lower levels...but like I said, I'd be willing to make this -6 or even -10). Perhaps add a rule that this penalty is adjustable depending on the circumstances. So that in the course of most encounters, the DM can make it so difficult that it simply is not worth while. But in high drama situations, it can be done(both by PCs and NPCs). Also, the penalty applies to your critical threat role. Target must be flat-footed, so this is a surprise round only thing. You must be adjacent to your target if using a bow. Provokes and AoO so any non-flatfooted enemies would get chance to stop you. Most combats in my game begin with a surprise round, so in most cases, you wouldn't even be able to move to do this. [b][/b] And he'd be giving up 3 other attacks, each of which could crit also. (unless he had the feats, but those are just theoretical). So you've got an easy shot and your attacks(using Rapid Shot) are +20/+20/+15/+10(or +22 w/ a single attack). You have an opponent who was suprised and you beat him in init in the first full round. You could do critical strike with a +18(or +16 or +12) and do 3X damage(and give any nearby foes a free attack) or do a full attack and have a good chance of dealing 4x or even more damage. [b][/b] But you can use power attack anytime, not just the first round of combat. [b][/b] I know what a crit can do. I had a 6th level fighter w/ a greataxe deal something like 68 points of damage on a crit. That's the point. There are certain high drama situations where someone _should_ be able to kill a potential foe outright. [b][/b] Not too concerned with "logic". A few games ago, my character was fleeing from some foes. He jumped from a height of 80' height, jumped up and continued running...He is now know as the dwarven meteor! :p [b][/B] That's why I posted here. To get feedback. So...given that it can only be done to flatfooted opponents, provokes an AoO, is a Standard Action so it forces you to give up a full attack if you are doing it in a normal round, etc...what penalty to the attack roll would you think would be high enough to make it rarely worth while, but low enough to make it sometimes worth while? Can you think of anyother drawbacks to tack on? Maybe a penalty to your AC for a round? [/QUOTE]
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