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<blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 215809" data-attributes="member: 413"><p>Alright...I know this is probably not a real good idea for most situations in most combat centric D&D games....but I'm just wondering.</p><p></p><p>I recently watched the move Tombstone and one pivotal scene really struck me as impossible in D&D: The scene where the main villian kills the town Marshal and the Erp brothers end up in a stand off with the Cowboy gang over their now unconscious leader.</p><p></p><p>Let's convert it to a medieval fantasy D&D setting...</p><p></p><p>So the main villian(Rogue5/Fighter3...I can't remember his name) is out in the street, high on opium and causing a disturbance. Maybe he is threatening citizens with his two short swords. So the town constable(Warrior3) reluctantly confronts him and tells him to hand over his weapons. The constable has the jump on him so in order to get a sneak attack, the villian bluffs the constable into believing he's going to hand over his weapons. At the last moment, he stabs the constable for 4d6 damage, killing him. </p><p></p><p>At that moment, Wyatt Erp(Rogue3/Ranger3/Fighter4) rushes out and somehow incapacitates the villian with subdual damage with one hit to the back of the head. There is no way in D&D to do this that I know of with out a drawn out fight.</p><p></p><p>Then the mob comes out and the stand off occurs. Ike(Rogue2/Fighter2) attempts to intimidate Wyatt to "Cut 'em loose, law dog, or I swear to God that we'll tear you apart," but fails. As Ike steps forward, Wyatt puts his sword to Ike's throat and says "You can probably take me in a rush, but I promise you, you'll die first." At this point, Wyatt could simply kill Ike at any points he chooses. No problem. Again, can't really be done in D&D.</p><p></p><p>If this scene were to be played out in D&D, Wyatt would have to strike the villian several times to knock him out, and while he could ready an attack on Ike and probably get a sneak attack on him(since Ike would be flat-footed), it is safe to say that he'd probably not kill him before he is killed by the on rushing mob of gangsters(assuming there are several rogue and fighter types between 4th and 6th level).</p><p></p><p>So...hear are some house rules that I am considering:</p><p></p><p>1) You can do a CdG with subdual damage. If successful, your target takes 10 more points of subdual damage than he currently has in hitpoints. To me, this has always been a no brainer. You should be able to knock a helpless foe unconscious just as easily as you could kill him since it is done in all the time in movies and such.</p><p></p><p>2) Critical Strike: As a standard action(that provokes and AoO), you you can make a single attack against a flat-footed foe with a melee weapon or with a bow or crossbow if you are adjacent to your target. This attack is made at -4 to your normal attack roll. If it hits, it is automatically a critical threat. So you may make a second attack roll(with the same penalty) to determine if your hit is critical. This can be done with subdual damage as well(which would incur ussual penalties for weapons that do normal damage in addition to the -4 mentioned above). </p><p></p><p>The penalty can be adjusted to make it harder or easier depending on feedback I get.</p><p></p><p>So at lower levels, it will be difficult to pull off. At higher levels, you'll be giving up your Full Attack. Also, it requires your foe to be flat-footed(as opposed to loss of Dex) so it can really only be done in the first round of combat(or second round if some people missed the surprise round). I could be convinced to make it for people who are denied their dex bonus, but I don't really want Rogues to be immune and I don't want invisible or blinking people doing it during normal combat rounds beyond the first. </p><p></p><p>Also note that it allows an AoO...so it could be stopped by non-flatfooted allies of the target...</p><p></p><p>Without this rule, Ike's response to Wyatt's threat: "Yeah right. I can take a single hit from you even with your sneak attack damage. Get 'em, boys!"</p><p></p><p>With this rule: "Oh wait...I'm flat-footed and you just readed a critical strike...that'll be 2d8+2d6+10 damage. That might kill me! We'll meet again..."</p><p></p><p>I could see adding some feats like Improved Critical Strike(allows you to do Critical Strike without provoking an AoO) and Supreme Critical Strike(allows you to replace one of your attacks in a Full Attack Action with a critical strike).</p><p></p><p>What do you think?</p><p></p><p>As a general rule, I don't add house rules unless I deem it necessary for the game to be fun. So I don't even know if I will use it, but I often find the game lacking in mechanics to allow someone who clearly has a foe at a major disadvantage to either take him out very quickly or to give him a major incentive to back down or surrender...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Uller, post: 215809, member: 413"] Alright...I know this is probably not a real good idea for most situations in most combat centric D&D games....but I'm just wondering. I recently watched the move Tombstone and one pivotal scene really struck me as impossible in D&D: The scene where the main villian kills the town Marshal and the Erp brothers end up in a stand off with the Cowboy gang over their now unconscious leader. Let's convert it to a medieval fantasy D&D setting... So the main villian(Rogue5/Fighter3...I can't remember his name) is out in the street, high on opium and causing a disturbance. Maybe he is threatening citizens with his two short swords. So the town constable(Warrior3) reluctantly confronts him and tells him to hand over his weapons. The constable has the jump on him so in order to get a sneak attack, the villian bluffs the constable into believing he's going to hand over his weapons. At the last moment, he stabs the constable for 4d6 damage, killing him. At that moment, Wyatt Erp(Rogue3/Ranger3/Fighter4) rushes out and somehow incapacitates the villian with subdual damage with one hit to the back of the head. There is no way in D&D to do this that I know of with out a drawn out fight. Then the mob comes out and the stand off occurs. Ike(Rogue2/Fighter2) attempts to intimidate Wyatt to "Cut 'em loose, law dog, or I swear to God that we'll tear you apart," but fails. As Ike steps forward, Wyatt puts his sword to Ike's throat and says "You can probably take me in a rush, but I promise you, you'll die first." At this point, Wyatt could simply kill Ike at any points he chooses. No problem. Again, can't really be done in D&D. If this scene were to be played out in D&D, Wyatt would have to strike the villian several times to knock him out, and while he could ready an attack on Ike and probably get a sneak attack on him(since Ike would be flat-footed), it is safe to say that he'd probably not kill him before he is killed by the on rushing mob of gangsters(assuming there are several rogue and fighter types between 4th and 6th level). So...hear are some house rules that I am considering: 1) You can do a CdG with subdual damage. If successful, your target takes 10 more points of subdual damage than he currently has in hitpoints. To me, this has always been a no brainer. You should be able to knock a helpless foe unconscious just as easily as you could kill him since it is done in all the time in movies and such. 2) Critical Strike: As a standard action(that provokes and AoO), you you can make a single attack against a flat-footed foe with a melee weapon or with a bow or crossbow if you are adjacent to your target. This attack is made at -4 to your normal attack roll. If it hits, it is automatically a critical threat. So you may make a second attack roll(with the same penalty) to determine if your hit is critical. This can be done with subdual damage as well(which would incur ussual penalties for weapons that do normal damage in addition to the -4 mentioned above). The penalty can be adjusted to make it harder or easier depending on feedback I get. So at lower levels, it will be difficult to pull off. At higher levels, you'll be giving up your Full Attack. Also, it requires your foe to be flat-footed(as opposed to loss of Dex) so it can really only be done in the first round of combat(or second round if some people missed the surprise round). I could be convinced to make it for people who are denied their dex bonus, but I don't really want Rogues to be immune and I don't want invisible or blinking people doing it during normal combat rounds beyond the first. Also note that it allows an AoO...so it could be stopped by non-flatfooted allies of the target... Without this rule, Ike's response to Wyatt's threat: "Yeah right. I can take a single hit from you even with your sneak attack damage. Get 'em, boys!" With this rule: "Oh wait...I'm flat-footed and you just readed a critical strike...that'll be 2d8+2d6+10 damage. That might kill me! We'll meet again..." I could see adding some feats like Improved Critical Strike(allows you to do Critical Strike without provoking an AoO) and Supreme Critical Strike(allows you to replace one of your attacks in a Full Attack Action with a critical strike). What do you think? As a general rule, I don't add house rules unless I deem it necessary for the game to be fun. So I don't even know if I will use it, but I often find the game lacking in mechanics to allow someone who clearly has a foe at a major disadvantage to either take him out very quickly or to give him a major incentive to back down or surrender... [/QUOTE]
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