Rage and Whirlwind Attack

[gfunk]

So we know that a raging barbarian can use Dodge but not Expertise. But what about Whirlwind Attack? This just came up IMC recently and I ruled that you couldn't do it while raging. I see Whirlwind Attack as a finesse sort of thing rather than just closing your eyes and spinnning around (a la the Barbarian from Diablo II). Thoughts?

 

[Hammerhead]

Whirlwind Attack requires expertise. If the character is denied one of the prereqs for a feat or ability, then he can't use that ability. So the Barbarian probably can't use Whirlwind Attack.

 

[Kraedin]

Just because you can't use expertise, doesn't mean you don't still have expertise.

As long as you still have expertise, you can use whirlwind attack. For similar reasons, you can use whirlwind attack in heavy armor.

 

[dr_nukem]

Just because you can't use expertise, doesn't mean you don't still have expertise.

As long as you still have expertise, you can use whirlwind attack. For similar reasons, you can use whirlwind attack in heavy armor.

While I agree you can whirlwind in heavy armor, I don't agree that you could WW while raging. It explicitly states that you can not use feats which require thought or concentration...then lists Expertise as an example of that. In my mind, that means that any feat which has Expertise as a pre-req is off limits while raging.

So, you still have WW while raging, but that requires too much control/thought and therefore you can't use WW while raging.

SRD:
He can use any feat he might have except for Expertise, item creation feats, metamagic feats, and Skill Focus (if it's tied to a skill that requires patience or concentration).

Having said that, if you want to be literal it explicitly mentions Expertise, while leaving out WW attack. One could argue that if the original thought was any feat based off Expertise, then it would have been worded that way.

I suppose it really depends on how you see WW working. Is it a skillful use of your weapon to attack all of your opponents or is it a mad single swing with all your strength?

In the end, it's probably your DM's call...

 

[hong]

Dood, if a barbarian in Diablo 2 can WW attack, then ANY barbarian in D&D can WW attack. Diablo 2 is sorta the canonical 3rd Edition CRPG, even if it doesn't technically use 3E rules.

 

[Creamsteak]

Dood, if a barbarian in Diablo 2 can WW attack, then ANY barbarian in D&D can WW attack. Diablo 2 is sorta the canonical 3rd Edition CRPG, even if it doesn't technically use 3E rules.

Exactly what I was thinking...

Barbarians should have WW just because it makes the whole rage thing that much more awesome. Anyway, why nerf a good feat that has so many fricken pre-reqs?

 

[AGGEMAM]

So we know that a raging barbarian can use Dodge but not Expertise. But what about Whirlwind Attack? This just came up IMC recently and I ruled that you couldn't do it while raging. I see Whirlwind Attack as a finesse sort of thing rather than just closing your eyes and spinnning around (a la the Barbarian from Diablo II). Thoughts?

This was the very first question I asked the board when I joined about a year ago and since the board (CRGreathouse and Caliban) after a heat discussion asked me to send it to the Sage I did, of course being a year ago I do not actually have his reply anymore (I suffered from a HDD meltdown), but this is what he essentially said:

Just because one of the required feats in a feat chain is surpressed doesn't mean you haven't still got the feat.

More specifically, the reason you loose Expertise when raging is because Expertise is a concious self-preservationist action, it is not because you loose the ability to think, as in loosing your Int bonus (if any).

I still think, and I house rule it, like that, ie if you rage you loose your Int bonus (if any).

 

[Macbrea]

Grace Jones in Conan the Destroyer 2 is a perfect example of a barbarian with whirlwind attack. She looses her temper when surrounded by a group of people and starts spinning about with a quarterstaff.

On a side note, when doing the scene she accidently hurt a few of the stuntman because she got alittle too wild with a real quartstaff.