D&D 5E Polymorph at higher levels - no beasts left?

[vlysses]

Hi, i have seen all kinds of discussions around polymorph, but not about his question:How do you work with it at higher levels? The spell allows you to change member of your group into a beast (as in the monster group "Beast") with the same challenge rating as the group member has levels (or lower), correct?Say you have a lvl10 group. Druid casts polymorph on one member. The highest level "Beast" in the Monster Manual is the CR6 mammoth. so you while the wording would make it possible, you effectively cannot polymorph your companion to a lvl10 beast, only a lvl6 one? That would mean this spell scales really badly... I wonder if anyone knows if it's just a poor choice of words in the description, implying something that's not really availble? Or does someone have reliable evidence that what is actually meant is are "monsters" in general at that CR (as opposed to the specific sub group of "beast")? Perhaps that's the "natural" nerf of the spell, basically rendering it weaker at mid to higher levels, until you can access true polymorph...?Any insight would be much appreciated...Thx

 

[mellored]

Correct. Though i think the t-rex is the highest. Whales are also fun.

But remember, polymorph is only a level 4 spell, and you don't need to cast it at a higher level to get a higher level creature. So it's a good thing that you need true polymorph to go higher.

 

[Ranthalan]

It means "beast", not "monster". The MM is only a selection of creatures. There's nothing stopping a DM or a player from creating beasts that aren't in the MM.

 

[Fanaelialae]

The Giant Ape (CR 7) is also a viable option. Unlike the T-Rex it can make ranged attacks.

 

[spectacle]

The Giant Ape (CR 7) is also a viable option. Unlike the T-Rex it can make ranged attacks.

It also has a decent INT score, so it's a lot more likely than a T-Rex to remember to not eat the rest of the party.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Your DM has stats for beasts. He always has stats for beasts. If you say, "I want to Conjure Elemental IX and summon a huge Earth Elemental," he's not going to give you a regular CR 5 Earth Elemental just because that's the only earth elemental in the MM. That would be a jerk move.

If you say, "I want to Polymorph Ryan into a Gigantosaurus Rex, like a hamster scaled up to 1000x normal size (85 tons)," your DM might veto or he might say, "Awesome. Ryan, you're now a CR 14 Gargantuan hamster with [checks DMG] 250 HP and a trample attack."

 

[I'm A Banana]

Hi, i have seen all kinds of discussions around polymorph, but not about his question:How do you work with it at higher levels? The spell allows you to change member of your group into a beast (as in the monster group "Beast") with the same challenge rating as the group member has levels (or lower), correct?Say you have a lvl10 group. Druid casts polymorph on one member. The highest level "Beast" in the Monster Manual is the CR6 mammoth. so you while the wording would make it possible, you effectively cannot polymorph your companion to a lvl10 beast, only a lvl6 one? That would mean this spell scales really badly... I wonder if anyone knows if it's just a poor choice of words in the description, implying something that's not really availble? Or does someone have reliable evidence that what is actually meant is are "monsters" in general at that CR (as opposed to the specific sub group of "beast")? Perhaps that's the "natural" nerf of the spell, basically rendering it weaker at mid to higher levels, until you can access true polymorph...?Any insight would be much appreciated...Thx

I think where you go awry is in imagining that this is best used as a party buff.

Polymorph's best use is typically to neutralize an enemy by turning them into a frog or a rat or a butterfly or a fluffy bunny some other harmless little critter.

You can use it as a combat buff at lower levels, depending on how your DM runs the "you have the creature's mind" thing (does the T-Rex understand it's fighting to save the world, or is it going to stop and eat the recently fallen and/or a tasty-looking party member? Can the enemy distract it with a strategic steak?), but turning your enemy into a toad is valuable all through level 20.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

And then you carry the toad around until you find another enemy, throw the toad at it, and release concentration. Now the purple worm is fighting an umber hulk instead of you....

 

[Sunseeker]

It means "beast", not "monster". The MM is only a selection of creatures. There's nothing stopping a DM or a player from creating beasts that aren't in the MM.

This is true, a creative DM could allow a wide range of fun with additional beasts.

However "at higher level" one should reasonably be using True Polymorph if you're seeking to get powerful monsters (ie: turn the fighter into a monster to give him a HP shield and kick more butt). If you're seeking to turn someone into a frog, regular Polymorph is fun at every level!

 

[vlysses]

Thank you all for the prompt and good answers. I accept that the spell was designed this way to taper off at higher levels, nonetheless the choice of wording seems poor in the context... Or at least there should be a clarification... Thx again