Paladin oath transgression thoughts.

[werecorpse]

I know some won't agree with me on a number of fronts but I believe that the Paladin class is the most powerful of the 4 or 5 melee classes (barb, fighter, ranger, paladin & monk). To address this without simply permanently removing some of their features I am contemplating playing a stricter enforcement of the oath requirements with some minor transgression type effects. The PHB suggests that breaching the oath may require a night in prayer and continued breaching may mean having to change class. I'm looking for something in the middle and wonder if anyone here has any ideas?

I'm thinking along the lines of
-"all spells and lay on hands can only benefit other similarly aligned characters (not self)"
- "loss of auras for a period of time (day or week or month as fits campaign)"
- "loss of channel divinity power"
- "smite does d4 instead of d8"

any ny other suggestions ?

 

[MonkeezOnFire]

You could easily justify giving disadvantage to any roll involved in trying to accomplish something that goes against the paladin's oath. Fluff it as self doubt and conflicting thoughts causing them to hesitate. For example disadvantage on deception checks for devotion paladins attempting to lie and mislead. Disadvantage on attacks against targets where violence didn't have to be the answer.

If things get really bad for the paladin you could start to have them be plagued by nightmares which don't allow them to benefit from a long rest.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Cyrinishad]

any other suggestions ?

Angels... That "purify" Oathbreakers & their insidious cohorts... OR just have Orcus come to "congratulate" the Paladin (in Roman Mythology, Orcus supposedly punished breakers of Oaths).

Jokes aside... I tend to think that the most effective way to enforce the Oath requirements (or anything else) is through tangible impacts on the story and the world rather than incremental mechanical adjustments.

Devils or Demons would want to encourage a Paladin to make more and more egregious transgressions of oath-breaking behavior, because corrupted Paladins are a worthwhile resource to them...

Conversely, I think a great way to get the Paladin to walk-the-walk & uphold their Oaths could be to provide them with a Squire NPC that is supposed to learn how to become an appropriate Paladin... or perhaps the Clerics/Paladins have other ways to test their faithful, and ensure that those who have sworn an Oath are able to uphold it... maybe Paladins need to submit themselves to a Geas spell for each of the Tenets of the Paladin's Oath when they become a Paladin (the spell is on the both the Cleric & Paladin spell lists, and is permanent if cast as a 9th level spell).

 

[Oofta]

When I hit this, I simply told the PC they had violated their oath and had no special abilities. No spells, no lay on hands, nothing. The gods had withdrawn their support and they were no longer a chosen warrior until they had made proper atonement.

I could see going half way on this, when they go to use their ability they need to make a charisma save for example. Depends on how egregious the transgression was.

As far as whether or not paladins are particularly powerful, I guess that depends on a lot of factors such as how many combats you have between short rests and other factors. Any spell caster is going to be relatively more powerful if you have a lot of long rests relative to the number of combats.

P.S. Ignore [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION], he just can't handle the aura of awesomeness that paladins naturally exude. Especially for Sir McStabsalot, Order of the Holy Owl.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Whether someone agrees with you about Paladin power or not, any change you make along these lines is simply a clear message to your players that they should not play paladins in your campaign.

It also implies that you don't trust your players to role-play the class they have selected, or at least not to role-play the way you would want them to.

 

[77IM]

I'd suggest changing the recovery rate for powers. If you're lax with the oath, you only get half your stuff back on a long rest. If you're actively against it, you don't get any back on a long rest. This may lead to some interesting notions, like a former paladin who hasn't been righteous in years, but still has some spell slots and lay-on-hands left that he has been saving for the right moment.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I will second [MENTION=6808925]Cyrinishad[/MENTION], it is best if you just have NPC's treat them like they have gone evil*. This also a good idea for any PC whose player swear they are some kind of good (and would ragequit if you were to imply their character sheets should say otherwise) start acting full murderhobo. As a DM, you aren't required to have the rest of the world look at the PC's like they are admired like Adam West's Batman.

* Usually I have a celestial come for a "come to Jesus" meeting, and if that doesn't go well, the PC can expect to have demons show up asking if the paladin would like to go oath breaker (plus "I've heard good things about you in the Abyss, rumor has it that you will be automatically raised to a chasme the day you arrive") or devils show up asking if the paladin will sign on the dotted line to become a conquest paladin.

 

[Ancalagon]

The paladin is very powerful if she doesn't have a lot of encounters in a day. As soon as they have to hold back and not smite every freaking round, they are not so overwhelming (although still very good)

 

[MechaTarrasque]

The paladin is very powerful if she doesn't have a lot of encounters in a day. As soon as they have to hold back and not smite every freaking round, they are not so overwhelming (although still very good)

Hmmm, having the party have a random fight happen every day (where the dead enemies and their loot disappear) could be a good "punishment" since a) the paladin would use up resources for a nongoal purpose, an b) the level of the encounter could be set to the level of his/her transgression. And the party still gets xp and a mystery.....