Pathfinder 1E Paizo's RPG SuperSTAR Contest Top 32

[Justin D. Jacobson]

So you had rather have well-formatted junk than somewhat less-well formatted, but more inspirational stuff?

That's an unfair characterization of his point because your examples aren't parallel.

"Well-formatted" = "More Inspirational"

"Junk" =/= "somewhat less-well formatted"

And he's not saying he'd prefer the former over the latter but that they should be treated roughly equally.

It would have been fairer to ask:

"So you [would] rather well-formatted but somewhat uninspiring items be treated the same as somewhat less-well formatted but more inspirational stuff?"

And I suspect his answer would be "yes", and I know mine would be too.

 

[Quasqueton]

So you had rather have well-formatted junk than somewhat less-well formatted, but more inspirational stuff?

Why do you quote what I said and then rephrase it to something completely different? Usually when someone does that, they're just laying bait to start a fight.

In any case, you'll get the chance to register your opinion in the next rounds.

Seeing how the first round went hasn't inspired me to look at the next rounds.

Quasqueton

 

[Quasqueton]

It would have been fairer to ask:

"So you [would] rather well-formatted but somewhat uninspiring items be treated the same as somewhat less-well formatted but more inspiration stuff?"

And I suspect his answer would be "yes", and I know mine would be too.

If "formatting" includes game mechanics ("well formatted" = "solid mechanics"), then yes.

If "formatting" just means "follows the written rules of the contest" ("well formatted" = "no more than 200 words, written like items in the SRD, etc."), then formatting is just a qualified/disqualified toggle.

In the basic form, the contest should follow:

1. Did the entry follow the stated formatting rules? (No more than 200 words, SRD format, is the entry a wondrous item [not a weapon, armor, wand, etc.]) If yes, go to step 2. If no, disqualified.

2. Is the item cool? (Interesting, inspirational, etc.) If yes, could be a winner. If no, then not winner quality.

3. Is the item mechanically sound? (Balanced, clear, etc.) If yes, could be a winner. If no, then not winner quality.

The fact that, in this contest, step 1 and 3 were handwaved for step 2 says something different than I would expect in a contest looking for a "Superstar."

This was Paizo's contest, to rule as they want. The discussion has been raised, so I'm just stating my opinion of the subject. I don't have a dog in the race, so my "objections" are purely academic.

Quasqueton

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

"So you [would] rather well-formatted but somewhat uninspiring items be treated the same as somewhat less-well formatted but more inspiration stuff?"

And I suspect his answer would be "yes", and I know mine would be too.

That's a reasonable reinterpretation of my question, and I also say yes. But that wasn't what I got out of Quasqueton's concerns - he wanted formatting to be a litmus test, or at least thats how I perceived his concern - he doesn't want them treated the same. I personally would weight the inspiration over the formatting.

 

[Odhanan]

FYI, [putting quotation marks within the sentence] is the British method and is growing in acceptance. I use it myself. The American style is a holdover from the requirements of old-time printing presses.

Quite interesting. In France, putting the marks in or out depends on the context and meaning intended. If you are just quoting an expression or putting an emphasis on it, the marks are in. If you are quoting a full sentence, they're out.

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

Quite interesting. In France, putting the marks in or out depends on the context and meaning intended. If you are just quoting an expression or putting an emphasis on it, the marks are in. If you are quoting a full sentence, they're out.

That's true in the British version too. I was only referring to the former class of cases.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

This is a holdover from the old days where the printed word had to be typeset. In that respect, it is similar to the spacing after periods at the end of sentences. Used to be, you put in two spaces (again, for typesetting reasons). Since the advent of the computer, that's been formally changed; now you only use one space after the period. I expect the quotation thing to slowly evolve that way as well. For example, it is telling that the most recent edition of the Chicago Manual of Style identifies the British system as an "alternative". Hence my comments above.

The Chicago Manual of Style isn't a style guide for professionals, though, is it? Last time I saw anyone push that on me, it was freshman English in college, and then it vanished off the radar.

I've never seen it suggested in the AP Stylebook and other writing guides for people who write for a living (like, say, gaming professionals) that they choose whichever side of the Atlantic fits their own personal style. And I've never seen quotes inside a period or comma in any American publication. Certainly, there are a few British D20 publishers, but the bulk of the work is over here, and submitting text in a format that's going to require their copy editor to go through and fix your work because of a preference is a very bad idea. (I worked as a freelancer for American and British news publications for a while in the 1990s.)

Now, if one publishes their own work, rock and roll. But the anonymous disgruntled alleged professional is going to stand out from the crowd, either because they simply don't know proper American punctuation, or are making a rather quirky personal choice.

In either case, it sucks for anonymity.

 

[Enkhidu]

I think the open call was a great idea - modeling one of the most successful WotC ventures in the last 7 years (the setting search that produced Eberron) is a shoo-in for success. And really I've got no gripe with the initial judging. While I wouldn't have necessarily made the same choices, a contest like this requires some form of arbitrary decision making, and the gut feelings of three people who have made a living out of doing this is as good as any.

My only "gripe" is that most of us will never see the threads associated with our rejected items. It's only through seeing considered criticism that someone like me might be able to see what about my entry wasn't up to snuff so that I could improve. More than anything, I miss the chance to see what three successful RPG authors said about my stuff. Even if it were brutal, it would at least be something.

 

[Bullgrit]

The Chicago Manual of Style isn't a style guide for professionals, though, is it? Last time I saw anyone push that on me, it was freshman English in college, and then it vanished off the radar.

I'm a professional writer and editor. In over 15 years of writing and editing, I've used either the Chicago Manual, or house styles based on the Chicago Manual. I've never worked with the AP style (though I own the book). To my knowledge, the only people who use AP style are newspaper and newspaper style publications. For most magazines, books, Web pages, manuals, etc., it's Chicago Manual. (Microsoft style is used in some technical areas.)

Kind of funny to see someone question whether Chicago Manual is a guide for professionals.

Bullgrit
Total Bullgrit

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Kind of funny to see someone question whether Chicago Manual is a guide for professionals.

I wrote for a number of magazines when I was freelancing from Egypt. They all used AP style.

I certainly will not disagree with your experience, however. In my industry, though, I've never seen it used or even be suggested that it be used. But my industry is not all industries.