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<blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8433471" data-attributes="member: 6778210"><p>I don't see the whole "fly by the seat of your pants" thing here. I just see some bad decisions, but nothing that really qualifies as what you are talking about. The carpet thing notwithstanding, I think bunches of these things could happen at a larger corporation. Like, have you seen what has come out of places like Blizzard?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, so "baffling decisions" misses what that document as well as ones that it linked to show: a consistent pattern of allowing these sorts of things happen. Yes, they <em>are </em>responsible for how third party volunteers act, because community management is a huge thing and it's clear that these are not isolated incidents. The links at the start, as well as those messages detail people who are frustrated with a status quo that isn't being changed, and see those at the company willing to use as props rather than making them feel included.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>These are not "suppositions". What is detailed at the start is vague, but intentionally so to avoid people getting blacklisted. What we see evidence of are <em>patterns, </em>ones that are recognizable even from the outside. These little things are not one-off mistakes, but things that minorities see as consistent actions.</p><p></p><p>But you are right, every company has their own social media policies. But if you read what they were talking about, it wasn't just not defaming the company, but rather not <em>questioning</em> it, either. The Facebook post that they screenshotted is not about "not defaming", but not presenting a completely united front. I'm sure Paizo can have similar stuff, though I doubt they have the same amount of people checking accounts like Hasbro can be. The whole point of detailing that is to why you don't hear this stuff, and why people can't be more open with it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And I'm not saying that WotC is a bunch of irredeemable racists or anything. Multiple people comment that there are good people there. I'd like to believe some of the people on the design team are really cool, like Chris Perkins, Jeremy Crawford, and Mike Mearls.</p><p></p><p>At the same time, we're talking about a place that didn't remove Zak S.'s name from their book until 2019. What Orion Black details, being isolated and othered for months, unable to work with people... that's pretty bad abuse any way you look at it. Wizards almost certainly has real problems. Whether their size and money will allow them to effective stop more from coming out is yet to be seen.</p><p></p><p>Finally, this isn't me trying to say one is worse than the other. The thing I'm focused on is changing this stuff. We've not gotten a good idea if anything has changed at Wizards. Certainly things didn't look like they were changing at Paizo, and the workers found themselves in a strong-enough position to make a move. The biggest thing here is that I hope it works, and that these companies will start living up to the ideals that they've profess to promote. I think we can both agree on that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Justice and Rule, post: 8433471, member: 6778210"] I don't see the whole "fly by the seat of your pants" thing here. I just see some bad decisions, but nothing that really qualifies as what you are talking about. The carpet thing notwithstanding, I think bunches of these things could happen at a larger corporation. Like, have you seen what has come out of places like Blizzard? Okay, so "baffling decisions" misses what that document as well as ones that it linked to show: a consistent pattern of allowing these sorts of things happen. Yes, they [I]are [/I]responsible for how third party volunteers act, because community management is a huge thing and it's clear that these are not isolated incidents. The links at the start, as well as those messages detail people who are frustrated with a status quo that isn't being changed, and see those at the company willing to use as props rather than making them feel included. These are not "suppositions". What is detailed at the start is vague, but intentionally so to avoid people getting blacklisted. What we see evidence of are [I]patterns, [/I]ones that are recognizable even from the outside. These little things are not one-off mistakes, but things that minorities see as consistent actions. But you are right, every company has their own social media policies. But if you read what they were talking about, it wasn't just not defaming the company, but rather not [I]questioning[/I] it, either. The Facebook post that they screenshotted is not about "not defaming", but not presenting a completely united front. I'm sure Paizo can have similar stuff, though I doubt they have the same amount of people checking accounts like Hasbro can be. The whole point of detailing that is to why you don't hear this stuff, and why people can't be more open with it. And I'm not saying that WotC is a bunch of irredeemable racists or anything. Multiple people comment that there are good people there. I'd like to believe some of the people on the design team are really cool, like Chris Perkins, Jeremy Crawford, and Mike Mearls. At the same time, we're talking about a place that didn't remove Zak S.'s name from their book until 2019. What Orion Black details, being isolated and othered for months, unable to work with people... that's pretty bad abuse any way you look at it. Wizards almost certainly has real problems. Whether their size and money will allow them to effective stop more from coming out is yet to be seen. Finally, this isn't me trying to say one is worse than the other. The thing I'm focused on is changing this stuff. We've not gotten a good idea if anything has changed at Wizards. Certainly things didn't look like they were changing at Paizo, and the workers found themselves in a strong-enough position to make a move. The biggest thing here is that I hope it works, and that these companies will start living up to the ideals that they've profess to promote. I think we can both agree on that. [/QUOTE]
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