Opinions wanted: is 'Master at Arms' an expertise feat?

[Christian]

I have hideous dice luck, and always gladly take anything that can mitigate that luck.

And Blood Jester is a spectacular player who really does have awful luck with dice. I once watched him fail something like 6 saves in a row against a stun effect. Yikes.

I feel your pain, Blood Jester. My party mocks my dice rolling constantly.

The Tactical Warlord was my dream come true. I couldn't switch to 4E fast enough when I saw the power selection ...

 

[Aulirophile]

In regards to Aulirophile's suggestion, spending a feat on just the weapon swap seems horribly underpowered (Quick Draw alone is better on multiple levels).

Not really better... Sheath Minor > Attack > Quick Draw. Economy: A Minor Action. Master At Arms: Minor Switch Weapons > Attack. Economy: A Minor Action. After you've attacked, Switch Weapons Back: Master At Arms: Works for a Minor. Quick Draw: Two Minors. So it is significantly better in some areas, comparable in others, and loses in a few scenarios. Depending on your character concept it could be pretty relevant (Ranger who dual wields and uses a bow comes to mind).

Though I was mostly referring to Light Blade Expertise, Staff Expertise, Orb Expertise, Rod Expertise, Spear Expertise, and etc., where the secondary benefit is arguably worth it even if you get +hit for free already.

 

[Incenjucar]

One way to deal with expertise feats is to simply allow people to take them strictly for their non-bonus benefits, and then give the bonuses to anyone and everyone, since they come with tricks that are worth a feat in and of themselves.

 

[aurance]

To be honest, Expertise feats are not, despite what people claim, necessary to attain 50/50 attack rates... you start off, and stay, ahead of the curve.

This is a bit of a strawman. Who claims this? The point of the expertise feats is to keep a relatively flat hit percentage across all levels, and has nothing to do with a 50/50 hit rate per se.

 

[Piratecat]

So we're clear, Blood Jester is absolutely not trying to sidestep the house rule. It's all good. But it's tricky; I encourage low character turnover (except for death) and my game is 2 years into a 6 year campaign. You can bet your ass I want my players to be happy with how they built their PCs.

In this case I've decided on a nifty compromise. If anyone really wants an expertise feat, they can take it and no longer gain that "cinematic" bonus I mentioned earlier. It's sort of a feat tax, but they don't have the minor stress of describing every attack and they always get the cool extra feature that comes with the new expertise feats.

 

[aurance]

In this case I've decided on a nifty compromise. If anyone really wants an expertise feat, they can take it and no longer gain that "cinematic" bonus I mentioned earlier. It's sort of a feat tax, but they don't have the minor stress of describing every attack and they always get the cool extra feature that comes with the new expertise feats.

I don't quite understand this compromise. Are you still reducing monster defenses by 1/tier, if they take an expertise feat?

 

[mneme]

That works, though it scales off the edge in paragon and epic tiers unless you also scale up the rp benefits (which I probably would anyway). Aurance, it's pretty clear--PC's players can either get a hit bonus for good description, or pay a feat to always get a flat hit bonus (but then never get a bonus for a good description).

Mind, it's not hard to optimize for mitigating bad luck (aside from the obvious case of "be a rogue"). Area attacks are great for this, as they tend to grant you multiple rolls even more than the Avenger's double roll does -- in exchange for less target choice, natch. Or the obligatory Avenger multiclass, and in high heroic/paragon, Stone of Foo(which combines amazingly with said Avenger multiclass), the Luckblade (daily reroll), Dice of Auspicious Fortune (merely overpowered if you rule that they reset to 0 after 24 hours, not broken), a lucky charm (free action +d6 to a d20 roll), having a friend who is an artificer (recharge a daily every milestone or get a free action +2 to an attack roll, usable when you need it). Then there are the marginal (but stackable) hit bonuses -- back to the wall, Dancing Thorn Style, and so on.

Or you could build a character who doesn't much care if she hits or misses; go with hammer, take all the "+strength damage on a miss" powers, and ignore the d20 except on a critical. Sure, your damage is usually uninspiring, but it's respectable, and you're fairly cheaply freed from the chains of the dice on one aspect and can then optimize to cheat fate for enemy attacks or saving throws.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I don't quite understand this compromise. Are you still reducing monster defenses by 1/tier, if they take an expertise feat?

Yeah, he said upthread that another house rule he has is a +1 to an attack that you describe. So he's letting you take the feat instead of having to describe every attack, if you want. Which is not a bad compromise.

Honestly, the interesting riders on the newer Expertise feats have basically overcome my only objection to them. BUT, they don't help a player who feels like they're rolling horribly.

One thing you might want to consider is letting a player spend an action point in order to gain a re-roll. It's a very slight bump in power (turns a few more misses into hits), but one frequent use of AP's IMXP is to get an extra turn after an attack whiffs, so all this house rule really does is streamline (and slightly bump) that process. I wouldn't even charge a feat for it, though you wouldn't be out of place doing so.

You might also let them "store" good rolls. If they roll high on something, allow them to keep that roll and re-roll for their new total. Then they can dump that high roll on something they *really* want to succeed at later. One of the phenomenons of rolling luck is that you might fail 6 saves in a row, only to roll 19 on all of your Initiative rolls. If you could even out that pattern a little, it might help mitigate the feeling that horrible rolls are ruining your day.

 

[Colmarr]

This thread is the first I've seen of Master-of-Arms.

When compared with the original expertise feats, I notice the extra "quick draw" kicker, but I also note that the +1 becomes +2 at level 11 instead of level 15.

Am I misremembering the old Expertise feats, or have they been changed in Essentials?

 

[Dice4Hire]

Essentials is simply by tier, not 1/15/25