Only thing I don't like so far: Power Replacement

[ConcreteBuddha]

In the Vancian magic model, spellcasters forgot their spells immediately after casting them, so...

And for some reason, that was less intrusive to me. I suppose it's because it's not just wizards, but every high level character ever who has learned higher level powers has somehow "forgotten" how to use the most basic of abilities.

The Vancian model you could at least handwave that "it's magic," besides, it was also not permanently gone: you had the knowledge of that spell in your spellbook, or in your daily prayers. Furthermore, what can we say about rogues, warlords, fighters, and rangers? If the game had a clear progression between abilities, where learning a higher level power replaced a lower level power of the same theme, I'd be a tad more pacified. However, as it stands, since you can unlearn an ability of any type to learn any higher level power, it just seems wonky.

Elminster can't cast basic spells? A 30th level fighter can't remember the basis of his entire training? How does knowledge pass on from one generation of heroes to the next if all of the experienced heroes can't remember a dang thing? Pfft. Wonky.

 

[Falling Icicle]

In the Vancian magic model, spellcasters forgot their spells immediately after casting them, so...

Well, I actually think these rules make less sense for Wizards than any other class. After all, Wizards have a spellbook to keep all the spells they might use for a rainy day. It's totally ridiculous for spells to just disappear out of the book, IMO. But then, I don't really like the way they handle spellbooks in this edition, since you are stuck with the 2/3 spells of each level and can never gain more by copying them from other wizards.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The sins of the past edition do not excuse the sins of the next.

It's more the sins of level based spell systems in general that are at fault here, I think.

Well, I actually think these rules make less sense for Wizards than any other class. After all, Wizards have a spellbook to keep all the spells they might use for a rainy day. It's totally ridiculous for spells to just disappear out of the book, IMO. But then, I don't really like the way they handle spellbooks in this edition, since you are stuck with the 2/3 spells of each level and can never gain more by copying them from other wizards.

Well, the spellbook contains magic spells. Maybe the innate connection between wizard and spellbook means that if a wizard "unlearns" his spells (in game: doesn't use them any more that often), the spell simply disappears. (Maybe the spell doesn't like feeling abandoned, and says good bye to his friends... )

 

[ExploderWizard]

This issue is one of the main reasons that I will be using a different system to run any sort of campaign where continuity, a sense of character development, and an internally consistent fantasy world matter. For tabletop combat, 4E is fine with no mods.

 

[Roxlimn]

You don't HAVE to retrain your lower level powers for higher levels ones, though, so it's not like it's forced on you (IIRC). A high stakes corporate attorney might be great at his job, but his high school calculus is going to be shot to heck. No sense getting him to teach that.

 

[essenbee]

Well, I actually think these rules make less sense for Wizards than any other class. After all, Wizards have a spellbook to keep all the spells they might use for a rainy day. It's totally ridiculous for spells to just disappear out of the book, IMO. But then, I don't really like the way they handle spellbooks in this edition, since you are stuck with the 2/3 spells of each level and can never gain more by copying them from other wizards.

Well, for wizards, the spell remains in the spellbook, so they can learn it for the day if they want, I would say. Do the rules say that spells written into the spellbook disappear when a power is replaced (genuine question, I don't have a wizard in my game at the moment, so have not spent much time reading up on them).

 

[drachasor]

Well, for wizards, the spell remains in the spellbook, so they can learn it for the day if they want, I would say. Do the rules say that spells written into the spellbook disappear when a power is replaced (genuine question, I don't have a wizard in my game at the moment, so have not spent much time reading up on them).

Yeah, the rules say that it disappears.

 

[Shabe]

Right so powers are replaced, for the following reasons

so that the number of options are in a fight are not increased beyond a "managable" level.
so that encounter powers aren't spammed every fight so that at-wills are not ignored.
The demigod power is not useless (minor point)

they cause the following problems

Doesn't make sense, why do you forget how to do something that you used to do 6 times a day, quite possibly yesterday.

Solution?

: Your mind can only master so many techniques, in the heat of combat you stick with the few moves that you have mastered and committed to memory to the forefront of your mind.

Rule: After any short rest you may gain any encounter power you had previously replaced, by losing an encounter power of equal or higher level to the power you are gaining, this change lasts until you rest.
After an extended rest you may gain any daily power you had previously replaced by losing a daily power of equal or higher level to the power you are gaining, this change lasts until you take an extended rest.

(I loathe to bring it up, but I have played lrp where your spell list was around 20-30 spells, wizards on a party usually came up with a spell of the day, because we couldn't actually remember every single spell we had access to without perusing our spellbooks, so we just kept a spell of the day and some common spells we would use at the forefront of our heads)

 

[Eytan Bernstein]

In power design, we've been encouraged to see some replacement powers as ramped up versions of what a character can already do. This isn't universal, but odds are you'll have a bigger and better fireball choice at several higher levels.

 

[Samurai]

What do you guys think of this idea?:

Paragon (Class) – Instead of choosing a Paragon Path, you may focus on your own class instead, becoming a Paragon Cleric, Paragon Wizard, etc. At 11th level, all of your class At Will powers become more effective, gaining their 21st level damage bonus 10 levels early. At 11th level you also gain an Action Point power: Instead of gaining an extra action, you may spend an Action Point to turn 1 regular hit with a class power into a critical hit, doing maximum damage to that 1 target. (Any other targets suffer the normal rolled damage.) You may decide to use this ability after rolling for damage. At 12th level, choose any 1 Utility power for your class, up to 10th level. At 13th, 15th, 17th, and 19th level, you gain additional class powers without replacing your old powers. This means you will eventually have 1 more Encounter and Daily power than most characters, as you are effectively trading your Paragon encounter and Daily powers for retaining 2 of each from much lower levels.