OD&D On the Origins of Classes (1e, OD&D)

[lowkey13]

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[Celebrim]

I think you need to suspend your antipathy to paladins, there origin is quite interesting - and some might like to know where the name comes from.

For now, we are forbearing from smiting the heretic until suitable time to allow for his repentance has transpired.

 

[Laurefindel]

Interestingly, IIRC, the design philosophy behind the thief was for a character to find traps, locate secret doors, climb walls, and comprend foreign languages without casting spells such as locate traps, spider climb etc. But wait, you can’t allow that without the expenditure of spell slots, so a chance of failure is in order not to infringe on the magic user and cleric’s roles.

now we complain about wizards and clerics infringing on the rogue’s skills with their locate traps and spider climb spells. I find the irony rather funny.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I love the Lieber, but I have some trouble tracking down specific Mouser references!

AFAICT, it's mostly the Aero Games model, with some Zelazny (Jack of Shadows / Shadowjack) and Vance (Cugel the Clever), but I don't doubt that Lieber may have some influence- just don't have a cite or way to verify.

You mean like testimonials from some insider back in the day going, "yeah, I totally ripped off _______"?

 

[lowkey13]

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[Enkhidu]

Was the 1e thief’s scroll use from Vance/Zelanzy, or from the Mouser?

 

[lowkey13]

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[Tony Vargas]

Was the 1e thief’s scroll use from Vance/Zelanzy, or from the Mouser?

Not quite like any of them, but I'd say more like The Mouser. Shadowjack had substantial magical powers of his own. Cugel often used items. The Mouser was a failed magician's apprentice. I can't recall any of them using anything like a D&D scroll (but it's been a while).

The Grey Mouser though, had a fascination with languages and deciphered ancient writings on occasion, and Gygax's scroll-using feature comes from the Theif's Decipher Script special ability. FWIW

 

[lowkey13]

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[Tony Vargas]

OD&D Thief.p.4 Might and Magic-

Well, Greyhawk.

here, we see the ability to read languages and read magical writings..... where did it come from? Well, my best guess is

So you don't have any of the insider testimonials you were looking for on that topic?

I was just looking at similarities because someone asked. The D&D Thief didn't use innate/powerful shadow-magic like Shadowjack, for instance, in fact, like Cugel, it didn't have innate magic, at all. It did use magic scrolls via Decipher script, which is closer to Lieber's Grey Mouser than the other two. There were other similarities.
There were differences, too, The Grey Mouser was a swordsman comparable to Fafhrd, though using a rapier rather than a broadsword - and no early-D&D Thief was the equal of a similar-XP (let alone level) Fighter, that way.