NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[mercucio]

Howdy!

UK,

I hate to dreg this up again, but I've been working on a pantheon and have a question. If [bonus type][Mind] grants a bonus equal to your stat why should any martial deity ever waste a slot on True Strike? Most martial deities by stereotype may not be abnormally intelligent or wise, but they do tend to the charismatic (and thus the Heavenly series of divine abilities).

I fail to see your point here.

Is a deity with [Bonus Type][Mind] + True Strike better than one with just [Bonus Type][Mind]?

The question should be "Is a deity with True Strike better than a diety with True Strike?". [Bonus Type] Mind applies to all attack rolls, while True Strike only applies to a specific type of weapon. Remove [sunder, disarm, steal, ect.] the weapon they deity has True Strike for and it is screwed, while the deity with [Bonus Type] Mind is not.

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

+1: x2
+3: x3
+9: x4
+45: x5

The divine ability Superior Critical quadruples your threat range for any weapon that you wield, so why does it cost +9 for a quadrupling of the threat range for a single weapon? A divine ability should cost +6 at most, and the weapon ability equivalent should cost even less since it only applies to the weapon it's placed on, as opposed to all of your attacks if you take Superior Critical. And why the sudden jump from +9 to +45?

I'm proposing the following pricing system for weapon special abilities:

Pricing for divine abilities on items with the price formula [Bonus^2 × 10,000 gp]:
+1 bonus = Feat
+2 bonus = Epic Feat
+6 bonus = Divine Ability
+36 bonus = Cosmic Ability
+216 bonus = Transcendental Ability
+1296 bonus = Omnific Ability

e.g. A 272 HD Old One (ECL 432, CR 288) could use one of his artifact slots for an amulet that grants him the Transtemporal transcendental ability, since a +216 bonus is exactly within his budget for an artifact that uses the price formula [Bonus^2 × 10,000 gp] with the artifact bonus formula of [ECL ÷ 2]. For his other three artifact slots, he could have a ring that gives him Omega Beam, a pair of bracers that gives him Transattack Period, and a pair of boots that gives him Superluminal.

Pricing for divine abilities on items with the price formula [Bonus^2 × 20,000 gp]:
+1 bonus = Feat
+2 bonus = Epic Feat
+5 bonus = Divine Ability
+25 bonus = Cosmic Ability
+154 bonus = Transcendental Ability
+925 bonus = Omnific Ability

e.g. An 80 HD Intermediate Deity (ECL 140, CR 93) could have a pair of +25 bastard swords, one granting him the Unearthly Power Attack cosmic ability and the other granting him Heavy Eradication. Each one has a total bonus of +50, and both of them fill two of his artifact slots using the price formula [Bonus^2 * 20,000] with the artifact bonus formula of [ECL ÷ 2.8]. However, since the weapons grant actual cosmic abilities instead of weapon special abilities, he could use Unearthly Power Attack and Heavy Eradication with both weapons provided that he is holding them.

This suggests that weapon special abilities should cost less than their respective divine abilities. For example, a weapon that provided Perfect Attack to all attacks (not just attacks with that weapon) would cost a +154 bonus, but a weapon that adds Perfect Attack to weapons with that weapon alone would cost less. This is shown with the Unerring weapon special ability, which costs only a +25 bonus despite being based off a transcendental ability, since the property only applies to attacks made with that weapon.

 

[Alzrius]

U_K, nice update to the website! I quite enjoyed seeing the revised hecatonchiere, as well as it's meaner version, the kilotonchiere (I won't bother you with the errata to that, since I know you're busy ).

That said, I noticed something odd regarding the URLs for your free stuff; you only have twenty-two items listed in the sidebar, but the URL for the kilotonchiere has it as number 23.

I did some checking, and free stuff #21 isn't listed at all; manually plugging that in leads to a page where you've written that you should have given us the Primal Quintessence Elemental and Primal Unelemental in the IH Bestiary, and so you're presenting them there - but then it gives us the stats for Orcus as a greater deity (from the previous article).

Likewise, free stuff #22 is listed as being Throne of Orcus part 2, but gives you a 404 when you actually go to that page.

Just wanted to run that by you. I hope the completed Ascension is here by the end of November!

 

[Omeganian]

Kilotonkheireis seems to me linguistically wrong (Hecaton is the first part, and should be replaced be Kilo- alone). Try Myriakheires if Kilokheires doesn't sound well (and if you can balance out ten thousand arms).

 

[dante58701]

Likewise...I'm pulling my eyes out with this wait.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius mate!

U_K, nice update to the website! I quite enjoyed seeing the revised hecatonchiere, as well as it's meaner version, the kilotonchiere (I won't bother you with the errata to that, since I know you're busy ).

That said, I noticed something odd regarding the URLs for your free stuff; you only have twenty-two items listed in the sidebar, but the URL for the kilotonchiere has it as number 23.

I did some checking, and free stuff #21 isn't listed at all; manually plugging that in leads to a page where you've written that you should have given us the Primal Quintessence Elemental and Primal Unelemental in the IH Bestiary, and so you're presenting them there - but then it gives us the stats for Orcus as a greater deity (from the previous article).

Yes, the Primal Quintessence Elemental has been at a 75%+ stage of readiness for some time. I just haven't had the time to go back to it.

In fact I had the Kilotonchiere at about 95% of what you see online on September 25th.

Likewise, free stuff #22 is listed as being Throne of Orcus part 2, but gives you a 404 when you actually go to that page.

I thought I had that online. I'll double check that in my next update.

Just wanted to run that by you. I hope the completed Ascension is here by the end of November!

At this point the cover is basically finished but for one major thing* (a few hours work) and a few minor things (a few minutes work).

*Specifically Surtur's heat vision hitting the dwarf immortal in the gold armour. The basic problem is that I already have the painting done behind where the heat vision is supposed to be (because I want the heat vision to be semi transparent). The heat vision overlaps the lower half of the blue dragon breathing electricity on Surtur. But it also overlaps one half of Surturs face. I just don't want to make a full on balls of the picture at the 11th hour.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

...
*Specifically Surtur's heat vision hitting the dwarf immortal in the gold armour. The basic problem is that I already have the painting done behind where the heat vision is supposed to be (because I want the heat vision to be semi transparent). The heat vision overlaps the lower half of the blue dragon breathing electricity on Surtur. But it also overlaps one half of Surturs face. I just don't want to make a full on balls of the picture at the 11th hour.

This, my friend, is why Photoshop rocks. After using Photoshop, sometimes I wish my pencils had an Undo button...

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

I was thinking... maybe dense special materials should be priced as bonuses instead of flat price modifers? It would certainly make orichalcum/neutronium artifacts easier to handle, rather than having to calculate for the total cost of the whole item with flat price modifiers. If we do this, then these would be the price bonuses for orichalcum and neutronium:

Orichalcum/Neutronium/Dark Matter/Black Hole Matter Weaponry: Bonus^2 × 20,000 gp

1/262,144th Orichalcum: +180,000 gp => +3 bonus
1/32,768th Orichalcum: +720,000 gp => +6 bonus
1/4,096th Orichalcum: +1,620,000 gp => +9 bonus
1/512th Orichalcum: +2,880,000 gp => +12 bonus
1/64th Orichalcum: +6,480,000 gp => +18 bonus
1/8th Orichalcum: +11,520,000 gp => +24 bonus
Pure Orichalcum: +25,920,000 gp => +36 bonus

1/2,097,152th Neutronium: +46,080,000 gp => +48 bonus
1/262,144th Neutronium: +103,680,000 gp => +72 bonus
1/32,768th Neutronium: +184,320,000 gp => +96 bonus
1/4,096th Neutronium: +414,720,000 gp => +144 bonus
1/512th Neutronium: +737,280,000 gp => +192 bonus
1/64th Neutronium: +1,658,880,000 gp => +288 bonus
1/8th Neutronium: +2,949,120,000 gp => +384 bonus
Pure Neutronium: +6,635,520,000 gp => +576 bonus

Dark Matter: +11,796,480,000 gp => +768 bonus
Black Hole Matter: +26,542,080,000 gp => +1152 bonus

Orichalcum/Neutronium/Dark Matter/Black Hole Matter Shields: Bonus^2 × 10,000 gp

1/262,144th Orichalcum: +2,500 gp => +0.5 bonus?
1/32,768th Orichalcum: +10,000 gp => +1 bonus
1/4,096th Orichalcum: +40,000 gp => +2 bonus
1/512th Orichalcum: +90,000 gp => +3 bonus
1/64th Orichalcum: +250,000 gp => +5 bonus
1/8th Orichalcum: +490,000 gp => +7 bonus
Pure Orichalcum: +1,210,000 gp => +11 bonus

1/262,144th Neutronium: +5,290,000 gp => +23 bonus
1/32,768th Neutronium: +9,610,000 gp => +31 bonus
1/4,096th Neutronium: +22,090,000 gp => +47 bonus
1/512th Neutronium: +39,690,000 gp => +63 bonus
1/64th Neutronium: +90,250,000 gp => +95 bonus
1/8th Neutronium: +161,290,000 gp => +127 bonus
Pure Neutronium: +364,810,000 gp => +191 bonus

Dark Matter: +650,250,000 gp => +255 bonus
Black Hole Matter: +1,466,890,000 gp => +383 bonus

Orichalcum/Neutronium/Dark Matter/Black Hole Matter Heavy Armor: Bonus^2 × 10,000 gp

1/262,144th Orichalcum: +1,440,000 gp => +12 bonus
1/32,768th Orichalcum: +1,960,000 gp => +14 bonus
1/4,096th Orichalcum: +3,240,000 gp => +18 bonus
1/512th Orichalcum: +4,840,000 gp => +22 bonus
1/64th Orichalcum: +9,000,000 gp => +30 bonus
1/8th Orichalcum: +14,440,000 gp => +38 bonus
Pure Orichalcum: +29,160,000 gp => +54 bonus

1/262,144th Neutronium: +104,040,000 gp => +102 bonus
1/32,768th Neutronium: +179,560,000 gp => +134 bonus
1/4,096th Neutronium: +392,040,000 gp => +198 bonus
1/512th Neutronium: +686,440,000 gp => +262 bonus
1/64th Neutronium: +1,521,000,000 gp => +390 bonus
1/8th Neutronium: +2,683,240,000 gp => +518 bonus
Pure Neutronium: +5,990,760,000 gp => +774 bonus

Dark Matter: +10,609,000,000 gp => +1030 bonus
Black Hole Matter: +23,963,040,000 gp => +1548 bonus


I didn't do conversions for Medium and Light armor because they didn't seem to follow the Bonus^2 × 10,000 gp price formula.

I'd also like to ask about the method of pricing for shields and heavy armor. They seem quite random compared to the weapons which simply use a staggered doubling. How was their price bonus determined?

 

[Anabstercorian]

So, how's progress on failing to complete that long-awaited product?

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Hmmm, another problem I've come across is how epic-level psions with Automatic Metapsionic Capacity can wipe the floor with any epic-level wizard with Automatic Metamagic Capacity. The wizard is limited to AMCing his 9th-level spells, but the psion is free to AMP effectively 10th-level and above "spells".

Consider this: nine 1st-level spell slots are theoretically equivalent to one 9th-level spell slot. However, this is not the case in a fight. A wizard with twenty-seven 1st-level spell slots can fire off a magic missile per round which won't do much damage, but a wizard with three 9th-level spells can cast a meteor swarm or energy drain to end the fight very quickly. In other words, damage per round is much more important than potential damage output for the whole day. An epic-level psion already has the option to forgo low-level "spells" and go for the big ones in a single round.

Let's try a fight with a 100th-level wizard with AMC ×50 and a 100th-level psion with AMP ×50.

As a standard action, the wizard can cast an empowered ×23 maximized meteor swarm for a total of 600 bludgeoning damage and 1800 fire damage on a successful ranged touch attack with no saving throw. Impressive, but not compared to the psion.

As a standard action, the psion can cast an empowered ×48 maximized energy ray (cold or fire) augmented to 100 PP for 17,500 fire or cold damage on a successful ranged touch attack with no saving throw. Or also as a standard action, the psion can cast an empowered ×48 maximized energy ray (cold or fire) augmented to 100 PP for 15,000 piercing damage on a successful ranged touch attack with no saving throw or spell/power resistance. As you can see, the psion clearly has a much higher "damage per round" potential than the wizard.

The solution? Firstly, limit the amount to power points spendable on a single power to 20, instead of an amount equal to the psion's manifester level (eg. a 500th-level psion can only spend 20 power points on a single power). Secondly, adjust the costs for certain "underpriced" metapsionic feats so that they match those of their equivalent metamagic feats, as follows:

• Delay Power = +6 power points
• Empower Power = +4 power points
• Enlarge Power = +2 power points
• Maximize Power = +6 power points
• Quicken Power = +8 power points
• Split Psionic Ray = +4 power points
• Twin Power = +8 power points
• Widen Power = +6 power points