Neanderthal stats

I wanted to come up with stats for a Neanderthal race for my Interglacial Ice Age campaign (with a higher tech/civilization level, though) and I want some input and advice on this race.

STR +4
DEX -2
CHA -2

+2 to all Wilderness Lore checks
+2 to all Fortitude saves

Favored class: Ranger
 

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A2Z

Explorer
Hey Josh. Aren't a lot of the ranger's class skills dex based? Maybe the dex penalty could be replaced with an int penalty? Just a thought. And if you have all this time to design a campaign world why are you taking a break from my game? ;)
 
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You're probably right. I always think of them as primarily wisdom based. I might use Ken Hood's Bushfighter, though, in place of the real ranger, so they're not so "magical."

Then again, the Bushfighter relies on DEX for quite a bit, too.

Maybe I oughtta change the stats to be more like the Half-Orc; +2 to STR, -2 to INT and -2 to CHA? In this campaign setting there wouldn't be any half-orcs anyway...

And I always tinker around with campaign settings, even if it's only a few minutes here and there. That's what keeps me sane!

BTW, when are you going to start doing Witchfire again?
 

Yuan-Ti

First Post
Couple thoughts to make you think, but I am no expert. You have been warned.

1) Were Neanderthals really stronger than the average human?

2) Were they dumber?

3) Why Ranger and not Barbarian?

Here ends the unexpert opinion.
 

SHARK

First Post
Greetings!

Hey Joshua, perhaps you would like the following a bit more:

STR +4
DEX +0
CON +2
INT +0
WIS +0
CHA -2

I say that because Neanderthals, or creatures like them, living in such harsh conditions, would probably develop great endurance, thus the bonus to CON. As A2Z mentioned, many Ranger-skills, and wilderness skills in general rely on DEX, so there perhaps shouldn't be any penalty there, you know? I hope this helps!:)

Your campaign sounds very interesting!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 

mmadsen

First Post
Were Neanderthals really stronger than the average human?

Judging from their skeletons, absolutely! Neanderthals were stocky, like the Inuit, and very, very muscular, judging from the large muscle attachment areas on their bones. In short, they were built like modern (steroid-using) powerlifters.
 

Presumably, yes, they were stronger. Neanderthals had a much more robust skeletal system, with large muscle attachment scars on the bones, indicating a more robust, muscular build than modern humans.

We don't know that they were "dumber" or not, but certainly they never developed the same sophisticated tools that their Cro-Magnon neighbors did, even while they were neighbors. However, their brain volume was at least as big, if not averaging slightly bigger. We also don't understand the exact relationship between brain volume and intelligence.

Barbarian would work fairly well, except that I'd want my Neanderthals to be more hunters rather than warriors. Then again, I'll probably just toss the whole favored class rule entirely: I don't like it much anyway.

SHARK, you've hit it right on in some ways with what the Neanderthal is. Stronger and tougher than a modern human, but where are the disadvantages? I don't want this race to be substantially superior to regular humans.
 

SHARK

First Post
Greetings!

Well, Joshua, I suppose you could assign the following:

STR +4
DEX +0
CON +2
INT -2
WIS +0
CHA -2

This could provide more of what you are looking to acheive.:)

On a tangental matter, I will admit that my approach to making races (among other things,) is the first priority to me is realism/faithfulness to the concept, and *balance* is distinctly secondary. Not that balance isn't important, mind you, but that I find it more important to remain faithful to the creative concept, than what some might engage in as a slavish kind of adherence to *balance* For example, if you were to adhere strictly to all of the *balancing* strictures in the DMG in order to make your race, you may indeed have a race that is no more, and no less desirable than a standard human, but in the process you may have diluted your original concept to a point of minimum returns. Do you see what I'm saying? Not that you are a slave to *balance* per se, it's simply a concept that while important, can also infringe on your creative processes. If your race is somewhat "unbalanced"--I say "so what!" Then again, I perhaps have the luxury to say that because I have players that almost without exception design their characters from the standpoint of "concept" rather than any mechanical considerations.

For example, in one of my campaigns, I have one player that has selected to play a Minotaur Wizard. Minotaurs, in comparisson to humans, elves, or others, make decidedly poor Wizards, and yet, the player simply likes the thought of playing a Minotaur who tries to master Wizardry. The fact that Minotaurs have a number of difficulties in being Wizards doesn't bother him at all.

In your Neanderthal example, if the Neanderthal is somewhat stronger and so on than a normal human, besides stats, there are other things that you can do to *balance* them. For example, you could not apply the (+1 Skill Point) per level that normal humans get; You could strip the Neanderthal of a initial bonus human feat; You could make the Neanderthals illiterate; You could even restrict what classes that they can be; for example, no Clerics, because Neanderthal religion isn't of an organized type; No Wizards, because the Neanderthals simply don't have a concept or tradition of Wizards; No Paladins, because neanderthals don't have the cultural concept or the religious sophistication and organization to give rise to Paladins; These could help.:)

In another thought, you could apply a (-4) to INT to not so much reflect that Neanderthals are stupid, but to reflect the fact that they adapt to new knowledge and ideas more slowly. I also apply the different bonuses and minuses to stats to meaning different things--which the rationale behind doing so is not always the way that many people think of it. Do you see?:) I hope I've made sense!:)

What do you think?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I'd present Neanderthals thus

CON +2 INT -2

Yes the had denser muscles mass and thicker bones however this relates more to endurance and ability to absorb damage than it does to applying damage/force against other things.

Int penalty as stated due to their lower 'intellectual' sophistication (whatever that means:)). - and really -2 isn't that much of a penalty (it still allows a 16 (+3) stat)

Nenderthal were tool and fire users however they lacked the adaptability of true humans (don't get bonus skills or feats of true humans) - this imho could also be a wis penalty...

I don't see why Cha bonus should apply. There is no reason why a Neanderthal couldn't be as charismatic or intimidating as True Human.
 

Tonguez said:
I'd present Neanderthals thus

CON +2 INT -2

Yes the had denser muscles mass and thicker bones however this relates more to endurance and ability to absorb damage than it does to applying damage/force against other things.

Int penalty as stated due to their lower 'intellectual' sophistication (whatever that means:)). - and really -2 isn't that much of a penalty (it still allows a 16 (+3) stat)

Nenderthal were tool and fire users however they lacked the adaptability of true humans (don't get bonus skills or feats of true humans) - this imho could also be a wis penalty...

I don't see why Cha bonus should apply. There is no reason why a Neanderthal couldn't be as charismatic or intimidating as True Human.

Actually, one of the reasons that Nenderthals died out is that Neanderthals were much less socially intelligent and didn't develop a society as much as humans. I would argue a -4 to charisma and a +4 to strength, but there would have to be something else to balance the race. The Discovery channel said that an average Neanderthal was stronger than the strongest cro-magnon.
 

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