D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

I can agree with that, but I find as many 1st level spells that need to be improved in power as those that could be theoretically nerfed. And this typically holds true as we go up in the levels. I was mainly referring to the big spells that I agree warp the game too far.

yup... they are all over the spectrum. It's like 2 or 3 awesome prefect spells and 1 or 2 OP broken spells and 3 or 4 why would anyone cast this waste of space spells and then a bunch that fall between perfect and weak.

Agree, well, not sure about making a ritual subsystem, but they certainly need to be more like rewards and McGuffins than normal spells. Otherwise you end up with a character who can trivially become immortal and a one-man army.

Agree

Ah, if it is only a few spells being nerfed, then I can likely agree (maybe not completely, I've tended to up spell damage in my games for certain spells, one that comes to mind is Blight). Some of your phrasing though seemed to fall in line with this idea of heavily nerfing casters. Not from you, but from others, I've seen examples such as rolling against a high magic DC and on a failure having the spell not only fail, but backlash and damage the caster.

I think spells need to be looked at OUTSIDE of legacy numbering. We need to find what the "power level" of a 1st and a 2nd ect spell is and redo them. If that means that anything that takes someone out of combat (save ends) is 3rd level+ then tasha laugh and hold person need to be raised (that is just an off the cuff example not a full thought out proposal)

I can't deny such an idea would bring things closer to some sort of balance, but I think it would make everything worse. If the goal becomes "make sure casters can't cast spells" then we have achieved balance, but in the worst way possible. I much prefer taking a few of those outlier spells that are far beyond what they should be (or should be gated in a similar manner to magical items) and tune them, while raising martial's profiles.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I know Power Ranger's lore is more complex than I think, but often the weapons they gain from the morphing grid are just... parts of them. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they actually don't exist before the Ranger transforms and brings them into existence as just an extension of their power.

Depends on the season.

In Lightspeed Rescue and even in the original MMPR with Billy, we see devices being built and stored in physical locations and even passed down from previous groups to the rangers. Some are even divorced completely from the Grid. We've even seen Zords under construction.

The Grid seems to include teleportation and hyperspace storage, and sometimes it's implied that even the suits are teleported onto the rangers, not 'morphed' as one would expect. Instead, the morphing seems to be transforming the body as we've seen children turned into adults and beast-men losing their snouts to fit the suit. Than again, the comics has a literal big cat ranger who has a suit to match his body so...

Power Rangers is weird.

 

[HammerMan]

alot no... more then I see of people talking about how cool fighters are YES. I would say it's like 5-10% on both though cause most people fall into "yeah I can see that" to both sides and don't post or talk about major one way or the other...

I don’t know where you pulled 5-10% from but I agree that most people fall between but side with either depending on conversation.

The idea that anyone can be sure that there side is more is weird.

Infact my personal experience is even people who talk UP the fighter have at least 1 "Oh but that full caster took my thunder that one time" story even if they then dismiss it.

Same

what are you talking about? at least 5 posters here on enworld say similar if not the same thing, and the first time I heard it was on Redit.

Hi. I post all the time that my group almost never mixes full casters with non casters

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Power Rangers is weird.

I mean yeah...

 

[Krachek]

Yeah, this idea has been rattling around in my head for the last few days. We talk about these things as though martials can only be human, but Martials are basically identical regardless of species.


I was thinking of the scene where Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn are tracking the orcs, and it makes note that they ran for days without rest. Legolas because he was an Elf. Gimli because he was a dwarf. Aragorn because he had special magic elf-blood and had been a ranger and was trained in these ways, because otherwise he couldn't have kept up. But in DnD... none of them could have done that. And yet, what reasoning could be given that a dwarf COULDN'T do that? And if the dwarf can, well, we already know that Aragorn's training meant he could too.

I just check out the Forced march rule in the PHB. The first time I read it after ten years of playing. I wonder how many here know or have even read this rule. Indeed if a DM apply this rule nobody can run after orcs for 3 days and night.

So as most DM don’t know this rule we go back to the usual task and skill resolution process.
Some Dm will say impossible.
Some DM will say not in my world! DC 30.
Some Dm will say, cool, I like that, DC 15 Or even lower.
It’s perfectly possible to have PCs running after orcs for 3 days and night in DND.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I mean yeah...

I dunno what to say. I mean it's almost as if each season was a completely different show or something

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

I dunno what to say. I mean it's almost as if each season was a completely different show or something

the writers of the show (Power Rangers not the OG) are DM geniuses mixing and matching crazy PC things into one combined world they should not have been...

 

[Krachek]

It's pretty simple.

Imagine I give you a cookbook and tell you "Here is how you make 12 kinds of omelettes". You follow the recipes perfectly, but 4 of them don't include eggs.

The 4 eggless omelettes don't turn out as good as the ones with eggs.

You can say..
"duh, who follows bad instructions in a recipe, obviously the person using it should just change it"

You can say..
"What fool doesn't love an eggless omelette?"

Or you can say..
"How the heck do you make an omelette cookbook and forget to include eggs as an ingredient in some of your recipes"

It seems you prefer the first option, and anyone with enough experience with cooking omelettes would probably make that call.

But..not everyone has that experience.
Annnnnddd..
It is the job of the people who put the recipes in the cookbook to give the users all the information they need to prepare the meals in the table of contents of that cookbook.

To summarize this tortured analogy..

Expecting the rules to produce a good play experience is not unreasonable or indicative of any kind of character flaw.

Honestly referring to eggs analogy I prefer
“You can't make a good session without breaking a few rules.”

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think spells need to be looked at OUTSIDE of legacy numbering. We need to find what the "power level" of a 1st and a 2nd ect spell is and redo them. If that means that anything that takes someone out of combat (save ends) is 3rd level+ then tasha laugh and hold person need to be raised (that is just an off the cuff example not a full thought out proposal)

On the list of things that will never happen, but I wish would, a complete restructuring of DnD's bizarre spell level system would be near the top. The power level of each "level" is... nearly a black box at times.

 

[Yaarel]

@Chaosmancer

Going back to the idea that Fighter gains a special magic item as a high level class feature ...

If your objection is, you want the Fighter oneself to be more mythic, then I agree. A legendary warrior should be able to do legendary things, despite being overtly magical.

The use of a magic item for a class feature is for those players who want the Fighter oneself to be nonmagic, even when using a magic item, such as a magic sword, feels fine to many of these players.

To resolve the conflict between the players who dont want personal magic flavor versus the players who do want personal legendary warrior magic, there is a solution.

When the Fighter player chooses the default special magic item, the player can instead choose an other magic item, and also can decide that the Fighter innately becomes the magic power of the item instead of having an item.