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Magic Item Talk
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I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Every item should be unique.
And the DM should be empowered to easily create their own unique items.
Best of both worlds. It's assumed that your Flame Tongue is a unique item, and the DM has the guidelines needed to make that a flaming axe or a flaming staff or whatever, if they want.
And if the PC's want to invent their own permanent items, they can...but it should be tied to an adventure, rather than just part of the background. You can "go questing" for the tongue of the red dragon that make your very own flaming bohemian ear spoon, and thus the item becomes part of the reward for the adventure.
"Consumables," like potions and scrolls, probably should be excepted from that. But even a +n sword should be like "Yea Im great,Im awesome!" (apologies to Aramax)
And the DM should be empowered to easily create their own unique items.
Best of both worlds. It's assumed that your Flame Tongue is a unique item, and the DM has the guidelines needed to make that a flaming axe or a flaming staff or whatever, if they want.
And if the PC's want to invent their own permanent items, they can...but it should be tied to an adventure, rather than just part of the background. You can "go questing" for the tongue of the red dragon that make your very own flaming bohemian ear spoon, and thus the item becomes part of the reward for the adventure.
"Consumables," like potions and scrolls, probably should be excepted from that. But even a +n sword should be like "Yea Im great,Im awesome!" (apologies to Aramax)
renau1g
First Post
Excellent. I hope the bring the magic back to magic items. 3e and 4e failed hard here. The math of 4e required it, which I hated. 3e started it by having the magic items in the PHB. Whoops, my bad. I was thinking the SRD which my group was using.
I played in a 2e game from 1st to around 12th or so. I had 2 magic items, a magic sword (+2 with a few minor abilities) and a set of magical full plate. That's it. And those were super special when I found them and became part of my PC, a worshipper of Selune, a sword that left stardust in its wake was awesome. Now I give PC's tons of magical loot because they need it. The whole Christmas tree effect sucks.
I played in a 2e game from 1st to around 12th or so. I had 2 magic items, a magic sword (+2 with a few minor abilities) and a set of magical full plate. That's it. And those were super special when I found them and became part of my PC, a worshipper of Selune, a sword that left stardust in its wake was awesome. Now I give PC's tons of magical loot because they need it. The whole Christmas tree effect sucks.
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Starbuck_II
First Post
There are no magic items in the PHB in 3.0/3.5.
Blackwarder
Adventurer
Yup, make magic items magical once again. Personally I always wanted to have a dragonlance.
Warder
Warder
Kinak
First Post
Man, magical items. Personally, I've been ignoring the system's advice on magical items since at least 3rd Edition and I have no problem continuing to do so.
As much as I'd be tickled to see my houserules enshrined in the DMG, they're probably not what the game really needs. On one hand, the +1 sword is quintessentially D&D. On the other hand, that means they need to either assume magical items in the math or not.
My preferred solution would be to include a range of magical items (from pure bonuses to utility) in the DMG. Then craft the combat math not assuming items at all.
I think, at the end of the day, players hitting 25% more than they're "supposed to" is just less of a problem than them missing 25% more often. That also puts items firmly in the DMs hands, letting them go for the base (itemless) game, the higher-powered (fully itemed) game, or the gonzo Monty Haul game. And creates a nice little niche to drop in my house rules without destroying anything.
I just hope they include good guidelines for knowing what changes new DMs are introducing to their games.
Cheers!
Kinak
As much as I'd be tickled to see my houserules enshrined in the DMG, they're probably not what the game really needs. On one hand, the +1 sword is quintessentially D&D. On the other hand, that means they need to either assume magical items in the math or not.
My preferred solution would be to include a range of magical items (from pure bonuses to utility) in the DMG. Then craft the combat math not assuming items at all.
I think, at the end of the day, players hitting 25% more than they're "supposed to" is just less of a problem than them missing 25% more often. That also puts items firmly in the DMs hands, letting them go for the base (itemless) game, the higher-powered (fully itemed) game, or the gonzo Monty Haul game. And creates a nice little niche to drop in my house rules without destroying anything.
I just hope they include good guidelines for knowing what changes new DMs are introducing to their games.
Cheers!
Kinak
hafrogman
Adventurer
It's a bit of a fine line to walk. On one hand, magic items based on math and formulas are a bit too regimented. On the other, they allow for a far greater diversity of magic items without requiring an individual write up for each item. His first item was a flametongue . . . but after however many decades of gaming, is it still just as magical to find the same item? It's new to the character, sure, but if the player has seen a dozen flametongues over the course of his gaming history, it's old news.
The proposition of have magic item construction as the purview of the DM sounds good, but at least from my experience with 2nd, 3rd and 4th editions, players will quickly read, assimilate and internalize any magic item list you provide, no matter what book it's in.
So I think the first step is to scale WAY back on magic items. I understand that this is something that has to be modular, from none to the Christmas tree, but I really think the base assumption has to be trimmed back to almost nothing. Two fighters in two different games shouldn't have the same items. One of the greatest improvements 4e made was removing stat boosting items. Sure they seem evocative, but they quickly become mandatory. We need to go further, removing +X items.
I'd like to see magic items say something about the person that wields them. One fighter might be a slayer of beasts, with his magical sword, one might be a bulwark against evil with his magical shield. But neither should have the other's items festooned around him to make the system work.
As for creation, it needs to be brought back to earth. In one campaign I play in, every time we level the cleric e-mails out a growing list of items she can create for us to pick and choose from. I'd like to see a return to questing for the materials needed for item creation. Magic item creation should be about adventuring, not about taking X days off from adventuring. I'd also like to see rules or suggestions for spontaneous magical item creation. Items that become magical through use. Is the warrior a hero because he has a magical sword, or is the sword magical because it's been wielded by the hero?
The proposition of have magic item construction as the purview of the DM sounds good, but at least from my experience with 2nd, 3rd and 4th editions, players will quickly read, assimilate and internalize any magic item list you provide, no matter what book it's in.
So I think the first step is to scale WAY back on magic items. I understand that this is something that has to be modular, from none to the Christmas tree, but I really think the base assumption has to be trimmed back to almost nothing. Two fighters in two different games shouldn't have the same items. One of the greatest improvements 4e made was removing stat boosting items. Sure they seem evocative, but they quickly become mandatory. We need to go further, removing +X items.
I'd like to see magic items say something about the person that wields them. One fighter might be a slayer of beasts, with his magical sword, one might be a bulwark against evil with his magical shield. But neither should have the other's items festooned around him to make the system work.
As for creation, it needs to be brought back to earth. In one campaign I play in, every time we level the cleric e-mails out a growing list of items she can create for us to pick and choose from. I'd like to see a return to questing for the materials needed for item creation. Magic item creation should be about adventuring, not about taking X days off from adventuring. I'd also like to see rules or suggestions for spontaneous magical item creation. Items that become magical through use. Is the warrior a hero because he has a magical sword, or is the sword magical because it's been wielded by the hero?
Tehnai
First Post
I agree with what was said, potions and scrolls and such are nice and flavorful, and wizards should be creating them.
I'm not the biggest fan of player-made magical items otherwise, I much prefer my magical items to be mystical, weird and unique. If the wizard wants to make a flaming sword for the fighter, it shouldn't be about sinking X gold in a gold-sink, it should be about traveling the old kingdoms and seeking a tear from the Harpy Queen, a king's mustache, a vial of dragonblood (fresh) and ore from a fallen star (or the star of a fallen whore?)
I'm not the biggest fan of player-made magical items otherwise, I much prefer my magical items to be mystical, weird and unique. If the wizard wants to make a flaming sword for the fighter, it shouldn't be about sinking X gold in a gold-sink, it should be about traveling the old kingdoms and seeking a tear from the Harpy Queen, a king's mustache, a vial of dragonblood (fresh) and ore from a fallen star (or the star of a fallen whore?)
Sense of wonder is in the hands of the DM, not the DMG. I want total customization with a guideline and examples for balance. If we must give homage to nostalgia, it would be fine to see items like Flametongue and Holy Avenger as examples of what could be made, but I don't want to see them as preset items in some presumed D&D universe. Maybe in my world, I don't have these, instead I have Rune hammers, or Light Sabers. Maybe I don't have healing potions and necklace of fireballs, I instead have kola nuts and juju beads that do slightly different things.
Also I want magic items almost fully in the hands of the DM, not the player. I know some players like to create magic items, and it's fine to occasionally have to work around that concept, but generally I think magic items are in the realm of the DM.
Also I want magic items almost fully in the hands of the DM, not the player. I know some players like to create magic items, and it's fine to occasionally have to work around that concept, but generally I think magic items are in the realm of the DM.
