Looking for info on how E8 and E 12 work.

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

I've heard about E6, and read some stuff on it, and while I like the idea of making the game easier to work with I look forward to something a bit higher level in terms of character power. Since people have also mentioned using the E6 idea for 8th (E8) and 12th levels (E12) I was wondering if someone could give me a breakdown of what they do and don't make easier, the same way people have talked about how E6 can make things easier. (I'm guessing there's an E10 variant as well, so I'd love to hear about that too.)

 

[Mercurius]

If we're talking 4E, my personal favorite is E30.

 

[El Mahdi]

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[Mercurius]

My silly comment aside, isn't the "Sweet Spot" different for different editions? (Aside from the obvious matter of personal taste, of course; that is, if we are trying to come to some kind of intersubjective consensus).

I haven't played 3E in five or six years, but I seem to remember the Sweet Spot being 5-10th, especially 6-8th (thus E6 and E8). It has been decades since I played AD&D, but I remember the Sweet Spot just starting around 5th when magic-users got fireball or lightning bolt, and then really picking up steam by about 10th, with 10-12th being really great.

I haven't played above 5th level in 4th edition, but it seems to be getting "sweeter". But 4E seems to have been designed with the idea of making ANY level sweet; and my sense so far is that it has just gotten better and better. Not sure how Paragon or Epic will play out, though.

 

[El Mahdi]

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[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I've heard about E6, and read some stuff on it, and while I like the idea of making the game easier to work with I look forward to something a bit higher level in terms of character power. Since people have also mentioned using the E6 idea for 8th (E8) and 12th levels (E12) I was wondering if someone could give me a breakdown of what they do and don't make easier, the same way people have talked about how E6 can make things easier. (I'm guessing there's an E10 variant as well, so I'd love to hear about that too.)

I think it's pretty much the same as with E6, but you stop levelling at a later point. The basic rules are pretty much the same. Once you read the "last" level, you only advance by getting feats. There are some suggestions on "capstone" feats that allow you to "cheat" a little and get access to a very few abilities that are beyond the top level. (Like one extra d6 sneak attack, a spell slot one level higher than normal or stuff like that.). I would recommend by reading the E6 thread and then maybe ask more specific questions.

BTW... Has anyone used the EN World Wiki to "immortalize" the E6 concept there?

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

.....and then maybe ask more specific questions.

At this stage I don't know what I could ask that would be more specific: I'm asking what sort of problems one runs into with something like E10 that you wouldn't run into with E6, and what sort of problems something like E10 doesn't run into that full 3eD&D/Pathfinder does.

 

[Nifft]

At this stage I don't know what I could ask that would be more specific: I'm asking what sort of problems one runs into with something like E10 that you wouldn't run into with E6, and what sort of problems something like E10 doesn't run into that full 3eD&D/Pathfinder does.

What E10 runs into that E6 doesn't: 4th and 5th level spells.

What full D&D runs into that E10 doesn't: 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spells.

Seriously, it's entirely about the spell lists. Look at the stuff on those, you'll see the limits of PC abilities at various levels.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Will]

Being somewhat conservative, here are the game-changers as I see them:

4th level spells (E6>E8):
Scrying
Polymorph
Death ward
Divination
Restoration

5th level spells (>E10):
TELEPORT. Dear christ.
Permanency (subtle, and I'm not sure this is a bad change)
Raise dead
True seeing (this can really shred a lot of sneak plots)

After that there are a lot of stuff, death effects, disintegrate, antimagic field, Blasphemy, and so on.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Although one could argue that if you have a problem with some spells that you just take out those spells. Thus the stopping point would come instead at the spell level where you're removing too many spells.