D&D General Inspiring Improv

[BookTenTiger]

How many times have you gotten past guards?

DM: The guard asks you to identify all the stoplights in the photograph.

Player: I make a Perception check... 13...

DM: You missed one! The guard asks you to identify all the bicycles in the photograph.

 

[DEFCON 1]

How many times have you gotten past guards?

A little bit of logic goes a long way.

It doesn't take much to show a new player that video game tactics do not necessarily work as played when you are in an RPG. If a player throws a coin to distract a guard like in Hitman... the DM just needs to act and react with a semblance of logical response, usually using normal human reaction for how the guard may behave (even if that doesn't match what the player would expect to happen within the programmed limited confines of the video game).

Now of course, some players hate the idea of the DM using their own instincts to determine what happens, rather than gating it behind a dice roll so that the results are "fair". For those DMs, the act of improv in mostly anything besides description is going to be an issue. But if that's what they prefer... gamifying and dicing most aspects of how things play and turn out, so be it. That's cool. Whatever they prefer. Now I personally would never want dice to supplant all/most of my ideas, actions, and reactions as a thinking person with just "what did the dice say?"... but if that works for others, their game works and is good. The games that will come out of both our styles will just look different is all.

 

[payn]

A little bit of logic goes a long way.

It doesn't take much to show a new player that video game tactics do not necessarily work as played when you are in an RPG. If a player throws a coin to distract a guard like in Hitman... the DM just needs to act and react with a semblance of logical response, usually using normal human reaction for how the guard may behave (even if that doesn't match what the player would expect to happen within the programmed limited confines of the video game).

Now of course, some players hate the idea of the DM using their own instincts to determine what happens, rather than gating it behind a dice roll so that the results are "fair". For those DMs, the act of improv in mostly anything besides description is going to be an issue. But if that's what they prefer... gamifying and dicing most aspects of how things play and turn out, so be it. That's cool. Whatever they prefer. Now I personally would never want dice to supplant all/most of my ideas, actions, and reactions as a thinking person with just "what did the dice say?"... but if that works for others, their game works and is good. The games that will come out of both our styles will just look different is all.

Lets just say there is a certain contempt by some folks for players that dont think the way they do. It shouldnt be a mystery when players dont want to engage improv with a GM like that.

 

[bloodtide]

How many times have you gotten past guards?

Very often, about 75% of the time.

Lets just say there is a certain contempt by some folks for players that dont think the way they do. It shouldnt be a mystery when players dont want to engage improv with a GM like that.

I'm not talking about the hostile players. If a player just sits there and says "I won't role play because you want me too", I'm fine with letting them just sit there.

I'm talking about the players that just can't find the inspiration to improv. They sit there as they are confused, at best.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Very often, about 75% of the time.

I'm not talking about the hostile players. If a player just sits there and says "I won't role play because you want me too", I'm fine with letting them just sit there.

I'm talking about the players that just can't find the inspiration to improv. They sit there as they are confused, at best.

Payn wasn't talking about hostile players either.

They meant hostile DMs, who have contempt for the ways players think and approach things.

You have, multiple times in the past, written things which led me to believe you dismiss the thoughts and ideas of others, particularly if you don't know why they would think that way, without much effort to understand them or work with them. Some of the posts you have made have given me the impression that you feel disdain for the thoughts and ideas of those who don't agree with you, and that you are either not interested in concealing this disdain, unaware of it, or unable to conceal it. Efforts I have made to point out a different approach tend to be dismissed as "word salad," or derided as "feel-good" DMing that erases all worth and value in a game.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Another (recent?) obstacle to PCs trying things: action lists. On your turn, you can Attack, Dodge, Move, Aid, Dash, or Cast a Spell. Then, Cast a Spell becomes a list of cool things to do in its own chapter. Where's the list of cool things that non-casters can do?

It's just one of the brain blocks that D&D has.

You can make this work for you, though:

First, add "try something else" to the list of basic actions on everyone's cheat sheet. Put it on the front page.

Second, take some time to come up with Skill Actions for several skills, and make a page that covers those. Some will be RAW (or RAW + how you read it), some will be made up, but each should come with a standard DC if there's a roll and what happens when they do it. To make sure they're tempting, give bonuses for doing stuff and don't penalize failures beyond taking up an action.

For example: Athletics: grapple, trip, shove, pin (RAW that's three shoves but spell it out); Acrobatics: balance, hop up (high ground = advantage), tumble through; Intimidation: demoralize (fear condition for one turn), scare off (make them flee); Deception: feint (one strike, advantage on next attack); etc.

 

[bloodtide]

You have, multiple times in the past, written things which led me to believe you dismiss the thoughts and ideas of others, particularly if you don't know why they would think that way, without much effort to understand them or work with them. Some of the posts you have made have given me the impression that you feel disdain for the thoughts and ideas of those who don't agree with you, and that you are either not interested in concealing this disdain, unaware of it, or unable to conceal it. Efforts I have made to point out a different approach tend to be dismissed as "word salad," or derided as "feel-good" DMing that erases all worth and value in a game.

There is a lot more context. I encounter a lot of players that are bad people...the lie, they cheat, they still and they only come to the game to ruin it for others.

But I'm only talking about the good players. They want to play a good game. they just have trouble doing the improv.....nearly all of the mundane character improv. These are the players I'm talking about.

I'm looking for ways to help players.

Second, take some time to come up with Skill Actions for several skills, and make a page that covers those. Some will be RAW (or RAW + how you read it), some will be made up, but each should come with a standard DC if there's a roll and what happens when they do it. To make sure they're tempting, give bonuses for doing stuff and don't penalize failures beyond taking up an action.

For example: Athletics: grapple, trip, shove, pin (RAW that's three shoves but spell it out); Acrobatics: balance, hop up (high ground = advantage), tumble through; Intimidation: demoralize (fear condition for one turn), scare off (make them flee); Deception: feint (one strike, advantage on next attack); etc.

Now this is a good idea.