Implements

[Gilwen]

I noticed reading the wizard implements that the wizard can perform specific actions with their implements. I know that to get an enhancement bonus the implement has to be magic. What about the other actions that can be done? Is that tied to the implement being magic or can they be done with mundane implements? Also I am assuming that the classes that use implements don't start with them?

Thanks,

Gil

 

[Danceofmasks]

To use those Wizard class features, buy yer implements from PHB p222.
Except those staves .. a staff implement is indistinguishable from a quarterstaff, it seems.

 

[hamishspence]

strictly thats not true

Staff and quarterstaff have same price tag, and are fought with same way, but ones an implement, and ones a weapon.

Would probably represent battle staffs as shod with iron or steell, and magic using staffs with a symbol or stone on the tip:

"Aaaaaaa wizards staff has a knob on the end..."

 

[Danceofmasks]

Ah, but you can use a staff implement as a weapon, and a magic staff is just as effective to twonk yer foes over the head with. PHB p241

 

[hamishspence]

sure

But what you cannot do, as far as I can tell, is use a quarterstaff to cast spells through.

I split them up and would describe them differently. Might not give the quarterstaff a blade the way Diablo does for high level ones, but make it as visible as possible that some staffs are weapons, with weapon enhancements, and some are spellcasting implements. Most obvious way is to make the implement staff look wizardy: big gem, runes, weird symbol, any of these helps.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but a quarterstaff is a staff .. as in part of the weapon group staff.
A wizard wielding a magic orb, staff or wand can add its enhancement bonus to the attack rolls and damage rolls of wizard powers ...
Now, a magic quarterstaff may not necessarily have been enchanted to be an implement, but it's a staff, it's magical, and it has an enhancement bonus.

So I think the implication is you can, seeing as as any implement staff is 'just' a magic quarterstaff for anyone not trained in its use as an implement.

Going by the implement staves section, they can be fashioned either as a quarterstaff or a walking staff (also imbued with arcane enchantments, but meh) ..
now if a nonmagical implement costs the same as a quarterstaff, and can be used in melee exactly like a quarterstaff, I would have to assume it is a quarterstaff.
If a magical staff that was cut as a quarterstaff before being enchanted is good enough to be a staff of defense, then why wouldn't any old sturdy-enough-stick do?

 

[hamishspence]

seperate groups

You can find a magic Vicious quarterstaff.
You can find a magic Staff of the Warmage.

But they are different groups in the treasure list, and are separted in the equipment list. The whole point of implements is you do not usually fight in melee with them, with Staffs being the exception. Allowing wizards full access to fighting quarterstaffs as magical implements might be too much of a good thing.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I'm not disputing the potential abuse, I'm just saying that wizards seem to me to be able to use any staff as an implement, and quarterstaff is a type of staff.

I think the phenomenon is no different from a half-elf fighter being able to combat challenge a whole bunch of mobs with a scorching burst.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Just in case this was still unclear, p.240 of the PHB says on Staffs that unlike other implements, it also functions as a melee weapon, so the enhancement bonus do apply to attack and damage. If you want to apply the bonus to a power with the implement keyword, your class must allow you to use Staffs as implements.

So, Staff looks like a good implement for Battle Mages that mix melee combat with spells.

 

[Danceofmasks]

No no .. I think we all agree that magic staffs designed to be implements make good melee weapons too.

The argument is over whether (for example) a vicious quarterstaff gives its bonuses to spells.