trappedslider
Legend
So until you rise up and overthrow your government you're not allowed to host events.
It is not that simple though... You ALSO have to have a technical approach to taking those steps. I don't see what that would be in this case, except to completely reject the entire concept of a community vote. Or do we now all have to present our birth certificates and DLs in person at an approved polling place in order to vote? While I don't IN PRINCIPLE disagree with your point, it is moot since there isn't any practical way to prevent bad actors from playing these games that doesn't entail effectively removing everyone else's ability to vote.Sure. I don't know that this changes the point much.
I mean, the fans of science fiction, supposedly forward-looking, after already having seen attempts to manipulate voting, didn't take steps to prevent ballot stuffing? When the point was raised at the time, DisCon allowed those ballots.
In the electronic age, if you're going to be naive about accepting ballots, you don't really get to whine that the bad guys did it to you. Own the error and fix it.
Even if 2023 was a one-off year of scandal, it still sets off red flags galore because it seems to be a two-faceted scandal.I guess the question for me is if they do know what they're doing, and have all this experience, why this year did they choose to override prior / established procedures to remove certain pieces of literature from the voting process? Why is this the only year with these apparent issues, when they say the prior number of years don't have these same issues? I could understand that more if it was new people, but existing people, who have run it for years, suddenly do things differently one year and breach their own regulations?
If it is all fine and just a one off, why did WIP censure Dave McCarthy / others for actions undertaken - and not just public statements but 'actions undertaken by the administration committee'? Why did a couple of them end up resigning if it is all just ?
Unless I'm misreading you, and you're saying that yes 2023's one was a scandal / issue, but it is a one off, and not some ongoing conspiracy as such, in which case I apologise.
Ehhhh, that sure doesn't jibe well with my experience, and my wife is entirely Chinese, so is my daughter. The government does not tolerate ANY sort of dissent, whatsoever. You MIGHT get away with making a speech like that, maybe, but it would not be a wise thing to do, at best. As for the Chinese public, its a very large country and there are undoubtedly various opinions. In general however there isn't a ton of anti-western sentiment in China. Given that there is no great love for the CPC in China, generally speaking, very few people there are likely to have a problem with someone, westerner or not, disliking or disagreeing with the CPC/PRC as a general thing. They're likely to think you are pretty stupid to voice those kinds of opinions though as, contrary to what you are saying here, the gov't is VERY VERY intrusive and even the most casual speech is likely to end up getting you in trouble!I saw where McCarty mentioned laws, not exactly the gov't. I have been following since the awards as people who were there mentioned some irregularity. Though I can also imagine that some vitriolic speech might not have gone down well with the fans either. I know people who have lived in China, and said the gov't is a lot less intrusive than the news makes it seem, however the people are. The general feelings are that the west has treated them badly, esp during "the century of humiliation".
Yeah, it kind of feels like there's a lot of smoke here, but maybe not so much fire. I mean, I can see why it would piss people off if works were excluded from the ballot for political reasons. There should probably be some rules on that! But what do I know? I just read the stuff, I don't go to cons.Edit: I'm not defending anyone or anything either, though tbh it looks like all speculation, Scalzi is the only one who has come out, and he seems to be blaming McCarty. I'm a big fan of science fiction, I remember Aldiss saying that Hugo Gernsback was the worst thing to happen to science fiction, not sure I agree. Though the way of peacefulness is through understanding, and that takes listening to what others have to say.
That is exactly what I'm saying. 2023 was a scandal, but it was a one off, the conjunction of a number of things. The administration committee was honorable: they took full responsibility for what happened on themselves, including Dave having lost his temper online. People resigned from Worldcons and other things for the sake of them, if they were associated it would do damage. It's basic: Worldcons matter.
Yes. Not if they are international events dedicated to free artistic expression (e.g. the Hugos) and you live in a state that is opposed to those principles. Which, as the report shows, led to the event improperly censoring writers and their work.So until you rise up and overthrow your government you're not allowed to host events.
Well, China is a great country, filled with fine people, and lots of stuff to do and see. I also happen to have relatives there (by marriage, but they're still nice people that I like). There are plenty of reasons to go there. Nor are people visiting from other countries likely to run into any problems, unless they act like total idiots. Being an idiot can get you in trouble in most places. Honestly the US is a bit special in that regard, it is generally HARDER to get in trouble here, but you most certainly can!Agreed. I will never understand what could possibly posess anyone to go to a place like China, or Russia, or Saudi Arabia or whatever by choice
Mindless Capitalism wins the day again or something like thatYes. Not if they are international events dedicated to free artistic expression (e.g. the Hugos) and you live in a state that is opposed to those principles. Which, as the report shows, led to the event improperly censoring writers and their work.
To me this is a common sense stance: unfree states should not be allowed to host events that are about freedom of expression. And when they do, it should not be surprising that the freedom of expression is quashed. As the report documents, the thought police (e.g. the ministry of propaganda) were actively investigating and interfering with the process. Which, shocker. What's more disappointing is how the con's organizers basically voluntarily facilitated the censorship.
What do you mean by "allowed"? How are you (or anybody else) going to stop another country from hosting an event? Especially a country the size of China?To me this is a common sense stance: unfree states should not be allowed to host events that are about freedom of expression.