Hugo Awards controversy

[Umbran]

Correct, sir: to avoid the censure of an authoritarian government, don't chose to give that government the opportunity to censure you. Dumb move, Hugos.

Well, I have learned that there was a bit of a problem avoiding it.

Worldcon is becoming the Olympics of sci-fi and fantasy fandom. It is a big thing, expensive to put on, and often only marginally financially solvent. It is getting harder and harder to get anyone to volunteer to host the con. Many years, bids run unopposed.

I'm told that, two years ago, the bid from China ran unopposed. Protesting holding the convention there was understandable, but nobody offered an alternative.

 

[dragoner]

Mimi Mondal went to it, one can see her posts on instagram, she was a guest, spoke in panels. I think the theme was to support non-western authors. Chinese feel that the west has treated them badly. China is an old civilization, much older than Europe with different morals and such, and sexuality is discouraged. France fought any sort of age of consent laws in the EU, in China porn is a prison sentence. If you go to another country, you have to do as they do. In truth the CPC has tried to be a liberalizing force, though recently I read Xi saying that the CPC is in alignment with Confucian principles, that is a 180 degree turn from Mao. For example in the movie Red Sorghum the woman laying down in the field scandalized society, there was a lot of push back. Cixin Liu said any sort of science fiction anything is sort of a victory there. I don't think this should be allowed to fuel anti-Chinese sentiment, however. There already were a lot of attacks during the covid pandemic.

 

[billd91]

I'm told that, two years ago, the bid from China ran unopposed. Protesting holding the convention there was understandable, but nobody offered an alternative.

Memphis may have withdrawn but I don't believe the Winnipeg bid was so Chengdu was not unopposed. If it had been unopposed, there wouldn't have been the controversy over the site voting and the irregularities in votes coming out of China.

 

[Tonguez]

Heh Westerners getting spooked by the "foreign" bogeyman

 

[Deset Gled]

I don't think this should be allowed to fuel anti-Chinese sentiment, however.

I haven't seen much of this as anti-Chinese rhetoric, although I suppose an underlying current of that feeling is expected to a certain degree. Rather, most of the real anger and outrage that I have seen is aimed at the organizers of the Hugo Awards. People are more upset about the lack of transparency and seemingly arbitrary decisions being made. The way that it looks like a cover-up and the extremely bad responses on social media have further fueled it.

If it had been made clear in the beginning (i.e. before the nomination and voting process) that certain topics were going to be barred from the Hugos, I think people would have been unhappy but understanding. A clear set of guidelines and expectations could have been set. Instead, people feel lied to, targeted, and hurt.

 

[Clint_L]

Mimi Mondal went to it, one can see her posts on instagram, she was a guest, spoke in panels. I think the theme was to support non-western authors. Chinese feel that the west has treated them badly. China is an old civilization, much older than Europe with different morals and such, and sexuality is discouraged. France fought any sort of age of consent laws in the EU, in China porn is a prison sentence. If you go to another country, you have to do as they do. In truth the CPC has tried to be a liberalizing force, though recently I read Xi saying that the CPC is in alignment with Confucian principles, that is a 180 degree turn from Mao. For example in the movie Red Sorghum the woman laying down in the field scandalized society, there was a lot of push back. Cixin Liu said any sort of science fiction anything is sort of a victory there. I don't think this should be allowed to fuel anti-Chinese sentiment, however. There already were a lot of attacks during the covid pandemic.

I reject the suggestion that this is at all related to "anti-Chinese sentiment," and the notion that "The CPC has tried to be a liberalizing force" is quite a hot take; I refer you to Xinran's The Good Women of China for first-hand accounts of how "liberalizing" the CPC has been.

This is about doing business with one party states, and is no different than the Olympics in China or Russia, WWE holding events in Saudi Arabia, etc. You are giving them a PR coup in exchange for the kind of financial and logistical support that one party states can offer because they aren't accountable to their people. So once you've taken the money, you start making the compromises.

Artists, in particular, shouldn't even consider holding events like this in totalitarian regimes.

 

[dragoner]

I reject the suggestion that this is at all related to "anti-Chinese sentiment," and the notion that "The CPC has tried to be a liberalizing force" is quite a hot take; I refer you to Xinran's The Good Women of China for first-hand accounts of how "liberalizing" the CPC has been.

This is about doing business with one party states, and is no different than the Olympics in China or Russia, WWE holding events in Saudi Arabia, etc. You are giving them a PR coup in exchange for the kind of financial and logistical support that one party states can offer because they aren't accountable to their people. So once you've taken the money, you start making the compromises.

I haven't seen much of this as anti-Chinese rhetoric, although I suppose an underlying current of that feeling is expected to a certain degree. Rather, most of the real anger and outrage that I have seen is aimed at the organizers of the Hugo Awards. People are more upset about the lack of transparency and seemingly arbitrary decisions being made. The way that it looks like a cover-up and the extremely bad responses on social media have further fueled it.

If it had been made clear in the beginning (i.e. before the nomination and voting process) that certain topics were going to be barred from the Hugos, I think people would have been unhappy but understanding. A clear set of guidelines and expectations could have been set. Instead, people feel lied to, targeted, and hurt.

It is not a hot take. I only know a little bit about there, history class in college, and worked for a Chinese firm building mixed use retail, hotel, condo towers in California. I have been a fan of SF long before being an SFRPG author, Hugo Gernsback has been controversial in the past. The elephant in the room is that all the authors disqualified were westerners, and now westerners are complaining. I am an American, so I kind of have to recuse myself from saying too much, other than it is not surprising to me that people walked into a minefield, and something exploded. Kind of like years ago building those towers another engineer said to me: "Hong Kong was our Auschwitz." What does one say? I don't know.

 

[billd91]

The elephant in the room is that all the authors disqualified were westerners, and now westerners are complaining.

Xiran Jay Zhao may live in Canada, but she's an immigrant from China with Chinese parents. RF Kuang is an American but also immigrant from China with Chinese parents (and a grandfather who fought for Chiang Kai-shek). So maybe westerner in citizenship, but hardly straight westerner in family, history, and culture.

 

[dragoner]

Xiran Jay Zhao may live in Canada, but she's an immigrant from China with Chinese parents. RF Kuang is an American but also immigrant from China with Chinese parents (and a grandfather who fought for Chiang Kai-shek). So maybe westerner in citizenship, but hardly straight westerner in family, history, and culture.

Indeed I have talked with Zhao on twitter before it imploded. One has to try to look at it from the Chinese side though. Perspective is important, my wife is Mexican (Apache-Ukrainian), and we were having dinner with some of her friends, a Black Couple from Richmond California. My wife asked me about what I thought about mixed race couples, and I scanned the surrounding restaurant angrily and said "who is talking about mixed race couples?" She said she was, because her friends had asked; and that is perspective, for me being a white American guy, I don't have to care. Once she had mentioned it though, I was more interested to hear their perspectives. Same here, I just don't want the whole thing to be soured on science fiction, and I am curious to hear the Chinese perspective on the controversy.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Just saying, we should all be careful here, as some of the posts are veering into political territory (everything is political!). I mean, I sort of started it off by referring to an anti-authoritarian article in my OP, so maybe it's on me.

Fortunately, we've got one of the mods posting in the thread, and I'm sure @Umbran is keeping an eye on us from that perspective...

Also, I always always want to separate people (in this case the Chinese people in aggregate as well as individuals who claim Chinese as part of their identity) from the government (Communist Party of China - CPC). I urge other posters here - they may want to add that nuance in their posts if what they are writing is not crystal clear.