How to apply damage?

[ShadowMaster]

Here is my problem. I have a thief which had been dropped to 4 str. I have weapon finesse so hitting is not more difficult than before. The thing is when I hit how do I apply my damage with sneak attack.

Lets say I have a simple dagger.

normal damage are:
1d4-3 (minimum 1)

normal damage plus sneak:

a) 1d4 -3 (minimum 1) + 2D6(sneak)
b) 1D4(dagger)+2d6(sneak)-3(minimum 1)

critical damage:
2d4-6(minimum 1)

critical sneak attack:
a) 2d4-6(minimum 1) + 2d6(sneak)
b) 2d4+2d6-6(minimum 1)

I think you understand my problem. Now I'd like to know what happen with a flaming sword and the same problem. Do we apply the minus only on the damage from the weapon or at the end?

If possible I'd like the ref from the core books.

Thanks.

 

[dulsin]

Weapon damage is counted all together first. Then you apply sneak attack


simple dagger.
1d4 -3 (minimum 1) + 2D6(sneak)

critical damage:
1d4 -3 (minimum 1) + 1d4 -3 (minimum 1) + 2D6(sneak)

A GM would have to be very silly to penalize a character's damage because he got an exceptionaly good shot in. (Oh you got a lucky hit to his kidney so your low str causes you to do even less damage than your normal hit!)

We have a Pixie rogue in our game and all her weapons are assumed to do 1 point because of her small size and low strength. A level 10 rouge with the ability to go visible at will is a scary thing! The hard part is just not taking any AOE damage.

The big question I had for my DM was when my Halfling Cleric (6 str) uses his staff 2 handed, does his damge decrease?

1d6 -2 one handed or 1d6 -3 two handed!

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

What dulsin said.

As for attacking with a flaming weapon, it's the same thing

1d4-3 (min 1) (weapon damage) + 1d6 (flaming damage) + 2d6 (sneak attack damage)

But as I am typing this, I'm not sure what happens with a magic weapon? Would it be

a) 1d4-2 (min 1)
or
b) 1d4-3 (min 1) + 1 (and thus, min 2)

?

AR

 

[Nail]

But as I am typing this, I'm not sure what happens with a magic weapon? Would it be

a) 1d4-2 (min 1)
or
b) 1d4-3 (min 1) + 1 (and thus, min 2)

Oooh. Good question!

As it turns out, the rules DON'T say that extra damage (sneak attack damage, extra damage from enhancement bonuses or energy damage) is added after the "minumum of 1 point of damage" is taken care of.

That is, the rules say that you add up all the modifiers to damage (including negative ones from strength), and the minumum damage is 1.

So, by the rules, I'd have to say Altamont Ravenard is....wrong. Sorry!

Minimum Damage: If penalties reduce the damage result to less than 1, a hit still deals 1 point of damage.

 

[Altalazar]

Oooh. Good question!

As it turns out, the rules DON'T say that extra damage (sneak attack damage, extra damage from enhancement bonuses or energy damage) is added after the "minumum of 1 point of damage" is taken care of.

That is, the rules say that you add up all the modifiers to damage (including negative ones from strength), and the minumum damage is 1.

So, by the rules, I'd have to say Altamont Ravenard is....wrong. Sorry!

This sounds like one for the Sage.

 

[DreamChaser]

added dice of damage are not modifiers to damage, otherwise they would be doubled on a critical and they aren't. A modifier is a fixed number, like +3 or -2. So this rogue with a +2 flaming dagger would do

1d4-3(str)+2(enh)[min. 1] + 1d6 (flaming) +2d6 (sneak, when relevant)

DC

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Actually, the rules simply don't say much on the subject... In the Damage section of the CombatI.rtf file, they're talking about weapon damage, ie the damage a weapon does. A rogue deals weapon damage AND sneak attack damage (which is delivered by the weapon, yes, but it is not "weapon" damage per se, IMO) (not a very convincing argument).

Nevertheless, it shows that the quote in question can't cover all the possibilities. The fire damage from a flaming weapon is certainly not reduced by a STR penalty, since you can make touch attacks with a flaming weapon. Sneak damage probably is reduced, as well as enhancement bonuses...

Oh well. Live and learn

AR

 

[MerakSpielman]

You deal (melee damage) + (sneak attack damage).

On a critical hit, what damage is multiplied - the melee, the sneak attack, or both? The melee damage! We all know that. This is because the sneak attack damage is a separate factor from the melee damage.

By your logic, Nail, a critical sneak attack will deal the same amount of sneak attack damage, but subtract twice the strength penalty from that damage. That's just wrong.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

1d4-3(str)+2(enh)[min. 1] + 1d6 (flaming) +2d6 (sneak, when relevant)

Or would it instead be:

1d4-3(str)+2(enh)+2d6(sneak)[min 1] + 1d6 flaming?

AR

 

[DreamChaser]

Or would it instead be:

1d4-3(str)+2(enh)+2d6(sneak)[min 1] + 1d6 flaming?

AR

again, no. because added dice are not counted as modfiers. They are added (or I suppose theoretically subtracted) dice of damage. Only modifiers (and the base weapon damage of course) are multiplied from a crit or affected by the minimum 1.

DC