How 'Hope' and 'Fear' Work In Critical Role's Daggerheart

[Morrus]

@CapnZapp You just like a different type of game. This game hadn’t failed by not being the type of game you prefer any more than chess has failed by not being Catan. They’re both board fakes but they’re different types of board game. There are many different types of role playing gane and the GM’s role varies between them. This is not the type you like. That is not, in itself, a flaw.

 

[aramis erak]

Why did they spend 6 threat for a throw away roll?

Anyway, sure, there are outlier situations, but that's not what we are talking about here.

To fill the momentum pool and to create a trait or two for the scenario so that they can have an easier time later on.

It's an emergent behavior of 2d20 players due to rules adherence.

Edit to add:
It's rationalized by long range scans, data research, prior mission research, examining the long range radio/optical astronomical data, planning sessions in the Ready Room...

Similar behavior emerged in my firefly campaign... shoot for an easy couple advantages early representing preparation and planning, to invoke later. It didn't backfire as hard nor as often.

In both game engines, things are generally stacked slightly in favor of the acting characters. But the bad luck can kick one in the teeth.

 

[Reynard]

To fill the momentum pool and to create a trait or two for the scenario so that they can have an easier time later on.

It's an emergent behavior of 2d20 players due to rules adherence.

So they gambled and lost, and then luck turned against them consistently. I don't see how this is a system problem as opposed to a statistical outlier.

 

[aramis erak]

So they gambled and lost, and then luck turned against them consistently. I don't see how this is a system problem as opposed to a statistical outlier.

The downhill slide is far worse when it happens later on...
That you can't see the issues with it does not mean they're not issues.

The snowball effect is a form of death spiral. A death spiral on the adventure level, rather than the character one. It's an inherent factor in 2d20, despite the odds being stacked in their favor.

In any such system, the potential for snowball effect is very much one to look out for when running games with GM and player expendables. Get too many but don't use them, and players can feel like you're "letting them win..." Use too many, and they may or may not be able to accomplish the mission, survive the adventure, or what not.

It's a fundamental concern that also happens less powerfully in FFG's Star Wars & Genesys - with destiny.

 

[Gorck]

You could also use a different scale if the referee is gaining too many tokens.
Not knowing the system, if a player gets +2 for a token, the ref gets +1. Or, 1 token to avoid a complication, the ref spends two to invoke one. Or something like that.

This was my thought after hearing the “too many fear tokens leftover” feedback. Instead of converting 2 Fear to 1 enemy action, convert 3 Fear to 1 enemy action.

NOTE: I have not actually played the game yet, I’m just relying on the play reports of those who have played it.

 

[Baron Opal II]

In any such system, the potential for snowball effect is very much one to look out for when running games with GM and player expendables. Get too many but don't use them, and players can feel like you're "letting them win..." Use too many, and they may or may not be able to accomplish the mission, survive the adventure, or what not.

It's a fundamental concern that also happens less powerfully in FFG's Star Wars & Genesys - with destiny.

Perhaps an unlocking mechanic could be useful as well. Fear tokens become available 1:1 when Hope tokens are used. That could throttle the number available, but at a consequence of using them after Hope has been expended. Hmm...

 

[aramis erak]

Perhaps an unlocking mechanic could be useful as well. Fear tokens become available 1:1 when Hope tokens are used. That could throttle the number available, but at a consequence of using them after Hope has been expended. Hmm...

There are two ways the excess can occur based upon the info in thread...

• Luck generates more than the GM can spend without stretching credulity
• GM doesn't try to spend.

They need different solutions.

Given the reciprocal nature described, the snowball is probably less likely...

The core mechanic of Critical Role's upcoming roleplaying game uses two 12-sided dice--one is called the Hope die, and the other is Fear die.

When a player makes a check, they roll both dice and add them together, comparing them to a check DC (which goes from 5 to 30, depending on the difficulty). Where the Hope and Fear come in is in the form of a meta currency reminiscent of Modiphius' 2d20 System--the players amass Hope, while the GM collects Fear. Whichever die rolls higher in a check generates a Hope or a Fear point.

Now, unless there's a buyable condition which causes extra, it's mostly going to be those two causes.
Note, however, unlike 2d20, dark fate generation is not on the same axis as success/failure... so it really is just luck.

 

[Baron Opal II]

I like the concept. Notably, the skirmish game Silver Bayonet rolls 2d10, being Skill and Power. The sum is your attempt to hit, your damage is just the Power die. Modifiers, often rerolls, are tied to one die depending on source. So, a scope for your rifle adds to the Skill die.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Stalker0]

Having just read some playtest feedback and reading through all the rules, I will say my initial reaction is just the sheer amount of "bennies" that are getting tossed around. Every single player roll is going to generate a hope (54.2%) or a fear (45.8%). Personally my players like to roll dice, and are always looking to make checks. It feels like both pools (hope and fear) would get pretty crazy very fast.

Take a simple encounter (maybe some rock climbing thing) where 5 players make a couple of rolls each. That generates 6 hope and 4 fear on average....seems like quite a lot to me at initial glance.

Although on the flip side it does seem like I can spend fear pretty quickly if I'm understanding the system. So for example, the party faces a big dragon. To showcase the power, I could have the dragon interrupt the player's first move with a mighty attack by spending 2 fear right out of the gate, and then throw in another fear to roll 2d20 and get advantage, and then 1 more fear to add a d6 of damage.

So I just blew 4 fear right there to give the dragon some badass opening move...but there is still a lot of fight left.

I will say the Volcanic Dragon (high tier boss fight) does look pretty darn awesome at first glance.