How do Skills work in 13th Age?

[Tony Vargas]

Lotta love for backgrounds, so I'll chip in with the Devil's Advocate viewpoint.

Backgrounds do suffer from a flaw in that you have to watch out for how the player defines them.


There are two obvious metagame incentives implicit in Backgrounds.

1) Max out one skill and try to apply it to everything. Obvious, makes sense, and it's not exactly hard to come up with very broad backgrounds.

2) Put half in each background and try to minimize overlap and maximize breadth so you're good at everything.

But those aren't huge problems. Yeah, 'skillful' players always pull shenanigans like that, GMs learn to deal with 'em way or another.

Where it's a little more of an issue is a player who's just going with concept. It's all too easy to come up with two backgrounds that virtually always overlap - so the points in one are largely wasted. It's also pretty easy to come up with two backgrounds that are fairly narrow, while someone else comes up with a broader one that subsumes them both, and does more besides.


It's not so much a system as a starting point for DM/player negotiations. That's fine for indie games and freestyle RP and the like.

 

[keterys]

Yeah, I thought about bringing it up too. I've seen a couple players who really stretch, either by trying to go "as a Gladiator, I've dealt with X before" where X is almost literally anything, or try to take 'Jack of All Trades" or "Lucky" as a background to more directly try for everything.

I've seen the reverse, too. There's one player I have where I have to constantly point out I'm looking at him because, yes, this arcane dragon check I'm calling for is definitely going to trigger his "Magically trained by dragons" background bonus. Sigh.

I've just very recently started pondering house rules and redesigns for 13th age, and a snippet from that is something I'm pondering for backgrounds:

"DM considers how often they expect a background to apply -
Almost all checks (80%+) +0
Most checks (50-80%) +2
Many checks (20-50%) +4
Very few checks (0-20%) +6


If a background is used a lot more than expected (because the player and DM expected it to cover a different range of activities, for instance), then adjust the value after the fact."

You would end up with higher backgrounds on average (ie, +7ish instead of +4-+5), and also encourage people to have a couple more specific backgrounds, instead of feeling like a 1-2 very appropriate background is a waste.

 

[Shadeydm]

I love the system, it finally breaks the age old D&D stereotype of fighter skill inferiority. As an added bonus it just another awesome way that it ties the PC to the campaign setting.
This is another aspect of 13th Age I would probably insist in bringing over if our group ever switched back to D&D.

 

[Nikosandros]

I love the system, it finally breaks the age old D&D stereotype of fighter skill inferiority..

Indeed. They actually had a system, during the playtest, in which some classes got more BG points then others. I'm happy it was shot down in flames.
As an added bonus it just another awesome way that it ties the PC to the campaign setting.

This is another aspect of 13th Age I would probably insist in bringing over if our group ever switched back to D&D.

Yes, it ties the characters and compels the players to enrich the campaign setting. It's great, it just takes some time for 'traditional' players to get used to it.

 

[Xorne]

I love Backgrounds so much...

Assassin of the First Sword
Enslaved Barbarian King
Emissary of the High Druid
Captain of the Dwarven Tunnel Rangers
Child of a Demon Cult Leader

That's the primary backgrounds of my group's party. When you add in their OUTs the story just writes itself.

Assassin of the First Sword (Sole living relative of the late High Warlord Ramstead)
Enslaved Barbarian King (The first barbarian king to be literate)
Emissary of the High Druid (Estranged child of the high druid--half elf)
Captain of the Dwarven Tunnel Rangers (Sole survivor of the Great Orc Invasion)
Child of a Demon Cult Leader (Has the soul of a demon imprisoned in his body)

I love this game so much. I use to start players out at 2nd level in D&D if they put this much thought into their characters.

 

[doghead]

Assassin of the First Sword (Sole living relative of the late High Warlord Ramstead)
Enslaved Barbarian King (The first barbarian king to be literate)
Emissary of the High Druid (Estranged child of the high druid--half elf)
Captain of the Dwarven Tunnel Rangers (Sole survivor of the Great Orc Invasion)
Child of a Demon Cult Leader (Has the soul of a demon imprisoned in his body)

I think this is an good example of how backgrounds can also be used to shape a setting. Just from these you get the feeling that this a game with something of an epic feel. The characters have already made their mark on the world to some degree; they are already, to some degree legendary.

The discussion about backgrounds can help start to define the experience that is to come. To shape a common, shared expectation and conception.

I generally run games in which the characters start out more ordinary. They have to struggle to make their mark on the world; they are largely, to begin with, unknown. If I was running a game and the players turned up with backgrounds similar to those above, then it would be readily apparent that there was something of a disconnect between my intentions and their expectations. Some discussion and/or rethinking would seem to be called for.

thotd

 

[Dungeoneer]

I think this is an good example of how backgrounds can also be used to shape a setting. Just from these you get the feeling that this a game with something of an epic feel. The characters have already made their mark on the world to some degree; they are already, to some degree legendary.

The discussion about backgrounds can help start to define the experience that is to come. To shape a common, shared expectation and conception.

I generally run games in which the characters start out more ordinary. They have to struggle to make their mark on the world; they are largely, to begin with, unknown. If I was running a game and the players turned up with backgrounds similar to those above, then it would be readily apparent that there was something of a disconnect between my intentions and their expectations. Some discussion and/or rethinking would seem to be called for.

thotd

You know, since 13A is so hackable, it would probably be easy to hack in a 0th level. Actually, we could take a page from 5e: no racial powers to start with. Maybe restrict classes to only one talent. Fewer background points and no OUT. Then the player would pick up everything they were missing at level 1. Could be kind of a character development/on-ramp level which allows you to start with more ordinary characters.

 

[Xorne]

I guess heroes are as legendary as you want them to be. I wouldn't call our game epic by any means--but the characters are actual heroes, not just some random group that met in a tavern. Each of them came from somewhere and is going places.

The first guy is a ranger ginsu build, and frankly would be pretty boring without the background.
The barbarian? King is a self-claimed title, and enslaved implies it wasn't recognized. The rest of his background is in "Escaped Gladiator" actually.
The high druid is a bastard half-elf son with no interest in being a druid (he's a bard), and a devotion to the Priestess. He has a conflicted relationship to the High Druid, who doesn't want to acknowledge him.
The dwarf is a ranger as well (str based) and apparently in my world, he was the first dwarven ranger. The "great orc invasion" could just be what his village called it--it's not necessarily recognized.
And the last guy is a sorcerer, though he might change to a chaos mage now. No one knows about his past or the demon.

The most legendary of the lot is really the barbarian, and that's just because he's frequently recognized by gladitorial fans in civilized places.

 

[Nebulous]

Alas, they were on my "hope against all hope" list for D&D 5E.

I seriously hope that is the kind of thing in the DMG where you can swap out the skill system wholesale

 

[Doctor Futurity]

I like 13th Age's backgrounds, but after 2 1/2 campaigns over the last eight months I've realized the following problems crop up:

1. As pointed out earlier, players who are savvy try to pick very broad backgrounds. A lot of mileage comes out of "thievery," "burglary" and "assassination" that you don't get out of "lock picking" and "tracking," for example.

2. A lot of players at least initially get too excited about the freedom and the next thing you know you've go someone with "tapestry design" or "herpetology" as skill sets.....cool for flavor but they will probably roll on them once in a blue moon. In fact I noticed after my two campaigns that in both groups one or two players with broad skills were constantly finding a way to suggest a benefit, and almost everyone else, who went for cool but obscure, found that they had almost no opportunities to justify using their backgrounds.

For reason #2 above my suggestion would be to hand out a suggested "idea list" of skills to people. This defeats the purpose of the whole exercise in one sense, but the real goal as I see it is to get people to think about decent middle-of-the-road skills that fit a decent range without being too broad or too narrow. The book itself already includes some decent ideas in each class description, FYI. Referring players to those lists may be sufficient.....but we did that in both campaigns I've run so far as well as the one-shots and players still picked far too many narrow skills.

I think, though, in the end it's okay to just accept that if someone wants to be a Seamstress who specialized in obscure poetry and studies the history of Cullinary Quisine for royalty --and it fits their vision of the character-- then more power to 'em. But be ready to try and think creatively about how those backgrounds will help in actual play (or as GM try to find a spot where the player can engage in some sewing, demonstrate some amazing royal cooking skills and recite poetry!)