Hardness and Sunder

[doktorstick]

Howdy.

I have had a 5 months haitus from D&D and will start playing again. I was reading through various sections of the books to re-familiarize myself with some of the rules. And I came across sundering.

I don't know why I never really paid attention to sundering. But when I re-read PHB pg. 136, I realized that sundering, combined with the low hardness/hitpoints of weapons, is quite powerful if not too powerful.

Large hafted weapons have approximately a hardness of 5 and 10 hitpoints. It takes only 15 points of damage to destroy this weapon? If it was a +5 great axe, it would only take 25 points of damage to destroy the weapon. And this (assuming you have a +5, too) would cause NO damage to the attacker's weapon. Doesn't that seem odd on two accounts--a) weapons are too wimpy (a hardness/hp problem?); and b) you can slam one weapon with the force of the gods and not damage the other?

Most higher level fighters would be able to sunder any weapon at will. Why wouldn't you do that all the time? The first time you get a +3 weapon, go sunder all those +2's in the land and rule in hand-to-hand. You know when you find a weapon that you can't sunder, it's worth keeping. Surrounded by an angry mob? Whirlwind attack sundering each and every weapon.

NPCs could quickly drive players mad. Have a few hefty fighters in that dungeon, and wham--no more party weapons. *snap* *crackle* *pop*

And of course they would have the Sunder feat.

No damage to your own weapon...? Geez. No wonder you can break adamantine doors with your dagger. Power attack. Power attack. Power attack.

And don't get me started on unarmed disarms.

/ds

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Howdy.



I don't know why I never really paid attention to sundering. But when I re-read PHB pg. 136, I realized that sundering, combined with the low hardness/hitpoints of weapons, is quite powerful if not too powerful.

/ds

Two ideas:

1) Adamantine weapons (for PCs)

2) GMW (for NPCs)

 

[Crothian]

You think Sunder's bad now? Take a look at the Improved Sunder feat in S&F.

 

[Gromm]

You think Sunder's bad now? Take a look at the Improved Sunder feat in S&F.

Improved Sunder is ridiculous. The only thing that stops people from taking it is the fact that most weapons can be destroyed without it.

I'm not a big fan of Sunder myself, but most of my PC's are too greedy to destroy +2 swords when they could kill the guy and sell them off at 4k+ a pop.

 

[Macbrea]

Thats ok, have you read the rules to "strike an object".



Fighter( 12th) enters in +5 Full plate armor.

Second Fighter( 12th) enters with Greatsword +3 (power attack, str 18, weapon spec)

For a provoked AoO, the Second fighter needs to roll an 3 to hit the first fighter if he chooses to powerattack for for 12.

Damage is 2d6+25 vs hardness 10, hps 20?
Oddly, enough the full plate armor doesn't benefit from the enhancement bonus as per the weapons and shields. So, the Fighter only has to roll a 5 to shatter the Full plate on two 6-sided dice.

That is saying the Full plate armor is 2/3rd an inch thick. Which would actually make it very unwearable.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Not accurate at all. armor is an item that covers a very large area and is designed to absorb blows. You could no more destroy platemail with one swing than I could destroy a car by shooting it with a single bullet. Both result in the same thing which is destruction in one tiny spot (ie a hole).

Personally weapons are so valuable that few people will want to use Sunder. The weapons of a foe are just too valuable to be destroying like this.

Where I do see sunder getting used a lot is those situations where annoying PC's wont drop their longbow and keep taking 5' steps back and firing another arrow. After about the 2nd arrow most foes will finally attack the bow itself and destroy it. The best part is even if you dont have sunder the archer doesnt get an AOO since he is holding a missle weapon not a melee weapon.

Thats ok, have you read the rules to "strike an object".



Fighter( 12th) enters in +5 Full plate armor.

Second Fighter( 12th) enters with Greatsword +3 (power attack, str 18, weapon spec)

For a provoked AoO, the Second fighter needs to roll an 3 to hit the first fighter if he chooses to powerattack for for 12.

Damage is 2d6+25 vs hardness 10, hps 20?
Oddly, enough the full plate armor doesn't benefit from the enhancement bonus as per the weapons and shields. So, the Fighter only has to roll a 5 to shatter the Full plate on two 6-sided dice.

That is saying the Full plate armor is 2/3rd an inch thick. Which would actually make it very unwearable.

 

[Macbrea]

Hit Points

An object's hit point total depends on what it is made of and how big it is. When an object's hit points reach 0, it's ruined. Very large objects have separate hit point totals for different sections




So, by reducing the breast plate of the full plate armor to 0 you have destroyed it not just put a small hole in it. You will not notice any partial armors that are only arms and legs in 3ed. So, the full plate armor missing its breast plate is now very useless. Unless you wish to make up house rules to the fact that the peice mail armor now protects 2 points of armor.

This fact was how fighting was done in the Dark ages. A bastards sword primary use was to shatter a breastplate of the knight wearing it. If 3ed was trying to represent that they did a fine job of doing it.

 

[Kershek]

I could see a cleric using sunder to destroy an evil weapon that an opponent carries. After all, you won't be selling that, but destroying it later anyway....