D&D (2024) Half Race Appreciation Society: Half Elf most popular race choice in BG3

[The Shadow]

Tolkien handled half-elf lineage exactly how WotC is proposing: you pick one parent and have all of their species traits. Elros chose the human traits, and Elrond the elven ones.

The difference, though, is that the choice was made in-character. I'm not clear at what age, but my impression is that they were teenagers at minimum. Yeah, it was kind of weird! I suspect Tolkien considered it necessary because of the very different afterlives of elves and men.

Aragorn isn't even remotely half-elven - he's many generations removed from Elros. He's human, what makes him distinctive is that he's Dunédain. His kids with Arwen would be effectively half-elven genetically, I suppose, but I doubt they'd get to choose since Arwen herself chose the Doom of Men.

 

[CreamCloud0]

The difference, though, is that the choice was made in-character. I'm not clear at what age, but my impression is that they were teenagers at minimum. Yeah, it was kind of weird! I suspect Tolkien considered it necessary because of the very different afterlives of elves and men.

Aragorn isn't even remotely half-elven - he's many generations removed from Elros. He's human, what makes him distinctive is that he's Dunédain. His kids with Arwen would be effectively half-elven genetically, I suppose, but I doubt they'd get to choose since Arwen herself chose the Doom of Men.

i feel like aragorn is closer to DnD's half elf experience than elros and elrond's pre-choice physiology, although i do'nt actually know much of anything about what unique traits the LotR half elves had other than having to make the choice between mortality and immortality at some point?

 

[RareBreed]

Tolkien handled half-elf lineage exactly how WotC is proposing: you pick one parent and have all of their species traits. Elros chose the human traits, and Elrond the elven ones.

So I had to go digging into the ancestry tree of Elrond From what I gather, a Tolkein Half-Elf doesn't become 100% human or 100% elf after they choose. The choice is just about mortality. How so?

I did not realize that Elrond himself was born of two Half-Human, Half-Elven parents. I had always assumed that one of his parents was 100% human. But this is not so. Both Elwing and Eärendil were themselves Half-Elves. However, both of them chose to be Elves. If upon choosing, they physiologically became 100% Elves, Elrond would no longer be Half-Elven.

Now, my question is, Elrond and his parents chose to be (effectively) immortal, and retained the power of being Elves. I am wondering if Elros, though choosing mortality, kept the other benefits of being half Elven?

EDIT: One other possibility is that Elrond was born before one of his parents choose their mortality?

 

[The Shadow]

I did not realize that Elrond himself was born of two Half-Human, Half-Elven parents. I had always assumed that one of his parents was 100% human. But this is not so. Both Elwing and Eärendil were themselves Half-Elves. However, both of them chose to be Elves. If upon choosing, they physiologically became 100% Elves, Elrond would no longer be Half-Elven.

Sure he would, because the choice was made after he was born. Manwë decreed the choice after Eärendil and Elwing visited Aman, for both them and their kids. It's not clear to me why Arwen got to choose, though, as Elrond was definitely an elf by the time she was born, and her mom was definitely elven.

Now, my question is, Elrond and his parents chose to be (effectively) immortal, and retained the power of being Elves. I am wondering if Elros, though choosing mortality, kept the other benefits of being half Elven?

I'm not sure what the other benefits would be. But definitely the Dunédain, and especially their royal house descended from Elros, were highly blessed.

EDIT: One other possibility is that Elrond was born before one of his parents choose their mortality?

He was born before either of them did.

 

[RareBreed]

Sure he would, because the choice was made after he was born.

Yeah that's the one possibility I was thinking of, that maybe Elrond and Elros were born before one or more of the parents had made their choice.

But then as you said, why did Arwen get to choose?

 

[The Shadow]

Yeah that's the one possibility I was thinking of, that maybe Elrond and Elros were born before one or more of the parents had made their choice.

But then as you said, why did Arwen get to choose?

And if Arwen got to choose, why didn't Elros' kids? It's a puzzler.

 

[The Shadow]

And if Arwen got to choose, why didn't Elros' kids? It's a puzzler.

Thinking this over some more, it's almost like the elven ancestry is the issue, not the human. Arwen had an extra influx of 'elf', so she was 'elf' by default but got to choose otherwise.

Vardamir (and Elros' unnamed other kids) had an extra influx of 'human', so he was 'human' by default and didn't get to choose.

Likewise, Arwen's kids with Aragorn had an extra influx of 'human', and we have no indication that they got to choose.

The Doom of Men seems to trump the life of the Eldar. Which, given that Tolkien thought that - for all the elves' grace and longevity - humans got the better deal, kind of makes sense.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Regardless of any other consideration, the fact Half Elf/Orc have been representation for some players for decades, is reason enough to keep them.

And, they are right there in the 5e PHB, and this is not a new version/edition, so they should continue to exist.

Do you believe that no 5E rules should be removed or altered? There is precedent.

2014 Backgrounds look like they'll be replaced.
2014 Variant Humans look like they'll be replaced.

Would you be interested in the Custom Lineage rule from Tasha's being expanded to call out Mixed/Chimeric species options, so that half-elves and half-orcs are not the only mixed species that can be mechanically represented in the game? Perhaps something like below.

Choose one of these two Custom Lineage options:

Option A - Unique/Custom Species Variant

1. Pick one or more species to represent your parents/species of origin. These represent your species keywords.
2. Pick S or M size, appropriate from any of your species of origin. Either way, your speed is 30.
3. Pick between a skill or Darkvision 60' if appropriate for any of your species of origin.
4. Pick another skill.
5. Pick 2 (or 3, depending on how it balances out) level 1 feats.
6. Describe your character cosmetically how you want, and they can identify how they want.

Option B - Mixed/Chimeric Species Variant

1. Pick two or more species to represent your parents/species of origin. These represent your species keywords.
2. Pick one species to be dominant that gives you your base species abilities. You don't get the abilities of your other species of origin.
3. Pick S or M size, appropriate from any of your species of origin.
4. Describe your character cosmetically how you want, and they can identify how they want.

These options let players create a mechanically effective variant species, but they can choose how they cosmetically appear and how they identify.

I honestly don't think they will rewrite all races to be a chaotic, ever-growing buffet of species abilities to choose from.

 

[MoonSong]

Option B - Mixed/Chimeric Species Variant

1. Pick two or more species to represent your parents/species of origin. These represent your species keywords.
2. Pick one species to be dominant that gives you your base species abilities. You don't get the abilities of your other species of origin.
3. Pick S or M size, appropriate from any of your species of origin.
4. Describe your character cosmetically how you want, and they can identify how they want.

These options let players create a mechanically effective variant species, but they can choose how they cosmetically appear and how they identify.

I honestly don't think they will rewrite all races to be a chaotic, ever-growing buffet of species abilities to choose from.

Option B is very problematic because it reeks of the one-drop approach. And it is a bit icky to mixed people to be told we are truly one or the other.

 

[Scribe]

Do you believe that no 5E rules should be removed or altered? There is precedent.

I believe the root of this discussion is a 'soft skills' problem. This is not a crunch or mechanic or rules issue. This is 'touchy feely' how people feel. This is a question of people feeling welcome, feeling represented.

On those grounds, it seems absurd to me, to remove Half Elf and Half Orc, when the company VERY MUCH likes to paint itself as in touch with the 'soft skills' side of things.

So while you are correct they absolutely have removed and altered things, in this case? They are fools to do so and its a bad look.