half cost

Willtell · Jun 7, 2002

Half cost:
http://pub17.ezboard.com/fseankreynoldsboardsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=97.topic

Crothian · Jun 7, 2002

So, what happens when the Wizard makes an item for the fighter? Is the cost still half or does it become full priced?

kreynolds · Jun 7, 2002

Crothian said:
So, what happens when the Wizard makes an item for the fighter? Is the cost still half or does it become full priced?

It's only half price to the creator of the item. It's full price for everyone else.

kreynolds · Jun 7, 2002

Willtell said:
Half cost:
http://pub17.ezboard.com/fseankreynoldsboardsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=97.topic

By the way, this is old news. It's in the original thread. I beg of you, please, do whatever you can to not rehash this dreadful and painful discussion.

Crothian · Jun 7, 2002

kreynolds said:
It's only half price to the creator of the item. It's full price for everyone else.

Which is a little silly. Party resources are still being used. In fact the same amount, the only difference is that who it is given to.

"Mr. Wizard, I appriciate you making that Greatsword +5 for me, but could you hold onto it until I need it in combat because it's worth less towards our total amount of gold if you do. I'll hold a equal amount of magic for you that we found."

IceBear · Jun 7, 2002

Take it up with Sean...that was his ruling.

IceBear

kreynolds · Jun 7, 2002

Crothian said:
Which is a little silly. Party resources are still being used. In fact the same amount, the only difference is that who it is given to.

Let me ask you this, and for the sake of the argument, let's say that I agree with you.

If I make a magic item, then to me it's half cost against my wealth. If I give it to you, and you're in my party, then it's also half cost against you're wealth. Now, if you leave the party, why does it suddenly count against your wealth in full, as it should?

From here on out, for the sake of argument, assume I don't agree with you.

It's been made clear to me that the only reason that item creators are charged half cost is because of the sacrifices they make, such as slowing down their level progression. If you really wanna craft all of your own gear, thereby allowing you to carry twice the amount of stuff, it's perfectly legal. However, you'll have spent so much XP that you'll be at least a few levels behind the rest of your party. One nasty fight, and you're potential toast.

In my opinion, item creators get the discount because of the sacrifices they've made, such as time, gold on hand, XP, and yes, even role-play. But tell me, what has the Fighter sacrificed to earn the discount? Nothing. Item creators get the discount because creating their own items weakens them. Fighters are already tough as nails, and arguably, Paladins are the worst (they might as well be Abrams (sp?) tanks). They didn't sacrifice anything for the item. They spent no XP, no time (not like the poor creator had to spend, such as 8 hours per day completely uninterrupted), and they didn't slow down their level progression at all.

See what I mean?

kreynolds · Jun 7, 2002

IceBear said:
Take it up with Sean...that was his ruling.

I'm still waiting on my Sage response about that.

Crothian · Jun 7, 2002

kreynolds said:
Let me ask you this, and for the sake of the argument, let's say that I agree with you. If I make a magic item, then to me it's half cost against my wealth. If I give it to you, and you're in my party, then it's also half cost against you're wealth. Now, if you leave the party, why does it suddenly count against your wealth in full, as it should?

THe magical cut off has to happen somewhere. But if you leave the party, what do I care you're no longer a PC? THat would get me started on the fact that a PC that goes to an NPC looses over half his stuff because he uses a different table to determine amount of GP his possesions can be worth, but that's for a different thread.

From here on out, for the sake of argument, assume I don't agree with you.

It's been made clear to me that the only reason that item creators are charged half cost is because of the sacrifices they make, such as slowing down their level progression. If you really wanna craft all of your own gear, thereby allowing you to carry twice the amount of stuff, it's perfectly legal. However, you'll have spent so much XP that you'll be at least a few levels behind the rest of your party. One nasty fight, and you're potential toast.

In my opinion, item creators get the discount because of the sacrifices they've made, such as time, gold on hand, XP, and yes, even role-play. But tell me, what has the Fighter sacrificed to earn the discount? Nothing. Item creators get the discount because creating their own items weakens them. Fighters are already tough as nails, and arguably, Paladins are the worst (they might as well be Abrams (sp?) tanks). They didn't sacrifice anything for the item. They spent no XP, no time (not like the poor creator had to spend, such as 8 hours per day completely uninterrupted), and they didn't slow down their level progression at all.

See what I mean?

Okay, the only thing the Wizard is given up is XP. If a Wizard is making a magical item for the fighter, I highly doubt the Wizard is floating the bill. Also, I while the Wizard is taking down time to make the item, the fighter is using his downtime for something else. It's not like he's out adventurering. How much does the Wizard really give up? Even crafting a +10 weapon for the fighter only costs the wizard 8,000 XP, that's not even half a level at 20th. Granted, I doubt the wizard would do this for him, but my point is I don't think the wizard will spend "a few levels". Let's say the party is 12th level but because the Wizard has been making items he's a few levels behind at 9th (that's a big difference). The difference between 9th and 12th is 30,000xp. That's 750,000gp worth of items. So, it's obvious tthat won't be happening. Let's but him one level behind at 11th, which mean he's spent 11,000xp. That's 275,000gp worth of stuff or over the combined worth of 3 12th level characters. So, it seems to me that the Wizard isn't going to be loosing that many levels or else the PCs are going to way over in gp worth of magical items.

kreynolds · Jun 7, 2002

Crothian said:
But if you leave the party, what do I care you're no longer a PC?

Just become someone leaves the party, doesn't mean that they cease to be a PC. They might join another game, or they might one day get really lucky and I'll run a solo game for them.

Crothian said:
That's 750,000gp worth of items. So, it's obvious tthat won't be happening.

It's definately a possibility.

Four people in a party, 3 of them 20th level, god only knows how many levels behind the wizard will be. Each person with 760,000gp to spend a piece. The item creator is gonna have created some of his own stuff, say a third of his total equipment. That's roughly 253,333gp worth of equipment that he made, which means he spent roughly 10,133XP on his own stuff. Now, you factor in what he spent making stuff for everyone else, which totals 750,000gp worth of gear (that's 250,000gp worth of gear per person for the other 3 party members), and he spent 30,000XP to do it. Now, the total for all items created is 41,133XP and 1,003,333gp. Dude, that's a lot of gear and a lot of XP. Oh, and let's no forget XP that the item creator has spent on items that the party has long since ditched, such as those Bracers of Armor +1 or those Rings of Protection +2.

It can stack up pretty quick.