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Guide to the Qinggong Monk (Ultimate Magic)
- Thread starter StreamOfTheSky
- Start date
Kaiyanwang
Adventurer
AFAIK, the combo works.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Holy crap, I have to remember that spell for my Alchemist idea, via Ranger spell list it's available as a potion! Alright, good find. Obsolete in a game with 3E material since Greater Mighty Wallop is lower level (Sorc/Wiz 3 I consider "lower level" than Ranger 3), lasts 60x as long, and potentially raises damage higher. But that's pretty solid in a PF only game. So, Enlarge Person the Monk 20 (you need to trade the crappy Perfect Self to do that, of course), and he gets to 8d8 base damage with this? Or is there something else? Monk 20 is 4d8 enlarged, from there I'm not sure where it would go to. In 3E it'd go to 8d8, but PF slightly nerfed the damage by size progression. The Strong Jaws table shows 2d8 going to 4d6, so perhaps extrapolate from there that 4d8 goes to 8d6?
I upgraded True Strike to 3 stars, even with Barkskin.
I upgraded True Strike to 3 stars, even with Barkskin.
Last edited:
Kaiyanwang
Adventurer
Improved Natural Attack (Monster)
Attacks made by one of this creature's natural attacks leave vicious wounds.
Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.
A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.
The feat is still useful for our poor monk: you can check the progression of damage
Attacks made by one of this creature's natural attacks leave vicious wounds.
Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.
A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.
The feat is still useful for our poor monk: you can check the progression of damage
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
So...the table for Strong Jaw doesn't correlate with Improved Natural Attack? Niiiiiiice consistency!
prototype00
First Post
Hmmm, I wonder if you can quicken spell like ability blood crow strike?
prototype00
prototype00
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
You would need a very high CL, and I'm not sure that spell's worth it even then.
prototype00
First Post
Yeah, and on re-reading the feat, you probably don't get a ranged full attack as a swift action.
prototype00
prototype00
prototype00
First Post
Hey Stream, I know the rest of the archetype is pretty pants, but I like the drunken master's refillable ki pool (doesn't even depend on wisdom). If you can magic up an everfull tankard, well then its finitely infinite ki points.
What do you think? Drunken master/Qinggong Monk?
prototype00
What do you think? Drunken master/Qinggong Monk?
prototype00
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
If you can trade out all the godawful Drunken Master replacement class features that come later, it could be good. I really wish PF had said something regarding other archetypes and the QM. If you're stuck with the all of the Drunken Master's changed class features by your DM, I would absolutely not recommend it unless you're only dipping Monk, which...I'm not sure is ever a good idea, not for 3+ levels, anyway.
I mean, looking at the later Drunken class features...
Drunken Strength: This is better than Purity of Body, but worse than the the QM options you *might* (see my OP) be able to swap it for. The problem is for a swift action and ki point, you could be getting an extra attack and you can't do both. And the extra attack is better. Effectively making this useless. At least Purity of Body might make you feel like the "king of tanking" when you fight an Otyugh or something.
Drunken Courage: Tough call. Again, the QM offers better stuff. Will is likely a monk's best save, though, and while fear might make you miss a fight, poison can serious mess you up. It's possible I'm strongly biased against this just because Paladin gets immunity to fear plus a buff aura 8 levels earlier, which may or may not be fair to carry in reviewing this ability.
Drunken Resilience: This just sucks. It's worse than Barbarian DR, which most people seem to think doesn't matter for much at high levels, either. And you lose SR for it! Awful!
Firewater Breath: FOUR ki points and a standard for a short ranged cone of fire (ie, 80% of enemies will be immune or resistant by level 19) for the same kind of damage any mid level evocation could do? And you lose Empty Body for it?!!!! Beyond awful.
So...yeah. Depends heavily on if QM can replace those features. I guess since the magnitude of suck of drunken master starts out small and grows with level, it's not so bad for a game you never expect to get to high levels. Except for the opportunity cost of giving up QM features, which quite frankly, is pretty painful.
I mean, looking at the later Drunken class features...
Drunken Strength: This is better than Purity of Body, but worse than the the QM options you *might* (see my OP) be able to swap it for. The problem is for a swift action and ki point, you could be getting an extra attack and you can't do both. And the extra attack is better. Effectively making this useless. At least Purity of Body might make you feel like the "king of tanking" when you fight an Otyugh or something.
Drunken Courage: Tough call. Again, the QM offers better stuff. Will is likely a monk's best save, though, and while fear might make you miss a fight, poison can serious mess you up. It's possible I'm strongly biased against this just because Paladin gets immunity to fear plus a buff aura 8 levels earlier, which may or may not be fair to carry in reviewing this ability.
Drunken Resilience: This just sucks. It's worse than Barbarian DR, which most people seem to think doesn't matter for much at high levels, either. And you lose SR for it! Awful!
Firewater Breath: FOUR ki points and a standard for a short ranged cone of fire (ie, 80% of enemies will be immune or resistant by level 19) for the same kind of damage any mid level evocation could do? And you lose Empty Body for it?!!!! Beyond awful.
So...yeah. Depends heavily on if QM can replace those features. I guess since the magnitude of suck of drunken master starts out small and grows with level, it's not so bad for a game you never expect to get to high levels. Except for the opportunity cost of giving up QM features, which quite frankly, is pretty painful.
