GRIM TALES: Nerfing the Shotgun?

[Victim]

Is it just me, or is the shotgun too powerful in Grim Tales? They do extreme amounts of damage (4d4 or 5d4), and ignore the Dexterity and Defense bonuses of anyone they happen to fire against. This allows a character to nearly always hit with a shotgun and deal huge amounts of damage. Although they have a short range increment, most fights in RPGs take place at close ranges, especially if the pistol wielders and martial artists also want a chance at the fun. In most gaming situations, the shotgun in Grim Tales seems to do huge amounts of damage while nearly always hitting the enemy. Am I missing something? Is anyone else of the opinion that the shotgun is too powerful?

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Am I missing something? Is anyone else of the opinion that the shotgun is too powerful?

Seems like it's pretty grim and gritty to me. I have no complaints.

Don't forget that the Grim Tales shotgun reduces in damage after each range increment.

Caliber   20ft  40ft  60ft  80ft  100ft 120ft+
20-gauge  3d4   2d4   1d4   —     —     —
12-gauge  4d4   3d4   2d4   1d4   —     —
10-gauge  5d4   4d4   3d4   2d4   1d4   —

Plus they have a full round action to reload because they are a firearm with an internal magazine by the rules.

Plus, with the spread that shotguns have, it makes it even more difficult to shoot into melee.

IMO, it feels like it evokes exactly the feel of what a shotgun does.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Well, I'm sorry, but if I have a shotgun and you are a pistol-wielding martial artist, you're screwed.

 

[HellHound]

I agree that the shotgun is too good in Grim Tales.

But this has a lot to do with most people's conceptions of how devastating a shotgun is as a weapon.

Consider that most shotguns will put all their shot into the space the size of a teacup at a range of 20 feet, you begin to wonder how the shotgun is so much superior to a rifle.

But that's a personal choice.

That's why I'm sticking to the d20 modern rules for shotguns at this time. After all, if you are going for realism, you are already playing the wrong game... a 9mm has an 82% incapacitation rate according to the FBI stats for a body-shot... You aren't going to see that reflected in almost any RPG, especially one that is d20-based.

 

[Nifft]

a 9mm has an 82% incapacitation rate according to the FBI stats for a body-shot... You aren't going to see that reflected in almost any RPG, especially one that is d20-based.

Sounds like it's time for someone to write the Riddle of Lead RPG, quickly followed by the Riddle of Teflon Polymers.

-- N

 

[HellHound]

I've invested my time in 'realistic' firearms combat systems, and always ended up walking away from them. The reality is that where you get shot, and a lot of luck, has more to do with the lethality of the shot than the caliber of the bullet ever does.

The single deadliest bullet in history is the .22 - it deals 2d4 damage in d20 Modern, and I've watched them BOUNCE off the heads of large rodents at range. Yet more poeple have died from this very common caliber than from any other bullet. So how do you reflect that in a game?

You make the game so deadly that it stops being a lot of fun.

I've seen some pretty abstract and some very concrete weapon damage systems, and in the end, I think that perhaps abstract is better... roll to determine how nasty of a hit has been delivered, then modify the damage SLIGHTLY based on the bullet / gun / pointy thing used.

If anything, Top Secret first edition knew the score... the core rules dealt damage based on a d10 roll. Optional rules adjusted the damage based on the caliber.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I agree that the shotgun is too good in Grim Tales.

But this has a lot to do with most people's conceptions of how devastating a shotgun is as a weapon.

Yep, and I think shotguns in Grim Tales caters to that conception and does what players want them to do: they are the idiot-proof, point-and-shoot weapon of choice at very close range. They deal a nice, predicatable average of 10 damage; unlikely to be of any serious concern to a henchman or major villain; deadly to most mooks on a slightly-above-average roll.

Shotguns will see your heroes through the low levels in much the same way that alchemist's fire is the work-horse desperation weapon of the typical D&D party. 2d6 damage as a ranged touch attack? Bypasses DR? Get out of town!

 

[Hammerhead]

Well, 10 damage probably isn't a major concern to the bad guy henchmen or villains, it certainly seems to be of greater concern than the 6.5 damage or so that a Colt .45 does. My problem isn't the "realism" of the situation but the fact that compared to other guns (at close ranges anyways) the shotgun cleans up, since it's devastatingly easy to hit with. Anyone not wearing the heavy armor of the setting gets mauled.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I do shotguns and such differently based on the flavor of the game, myself.

I'm using the GT version for my Airships! blunderbuss ... 10' range inc., 6d4 damage. KABOOM.

Nobody wanted one.

For my usual d20M games, I go d20M. Shotguns are popular weapons because they're relatively inexpensive, their ammunition is inexpensive, they're easy to clean, easy to care for, and are reliable.

If I were playing Cop Drama The RPG, though ... yea, you want shotguns to take people out of their shoes and toss them ten feet. Same with anything bigger than a 9mm, aparently. Ahhhh, the 80s.

--fje

 

[C. Baize]

If I were playing Cop Drama The RPG, though ... yea, you want shotguns to take people out of their shoes and toss them ten feet. Same with anything bigger than a 9mm, aparently. Ahhhh, the 80s.

--fje

Don't forget the biggest value of guns in '80s cop dramas...
Detonating cars by shooting them in the tires, bumpers, or trunks.