D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[TiQuinn]

As far as the DMG Greyhawk section goes, wouldn’t it make the most sense to do the high level, top down stuff for the new dm, then present a methodology for building bottom up?

I mean, sure, top down can work great, but telling prospective DM’s that they need to do 20-40 hours of homework before they even start writing an adventure seems like a really bad idea.

Heck, telling them they need to do two or three hours of homework before play starts is a very steep barrier to play.

There’s a very good reason why Adventure Path modules are popular.

We want the DMG to get people excited to be DMs. Don’t we?

Step one: Draw a dungeon.

 

[MNblockhead]

Out of curiosity, do you create a new world for every campaign? Or do you re-use worlds?

I guess a new world for every campaign. But I've only did one fully home-brewed world in the 10 years I've run games since getting back into the hobby with 5e. After a year or several years of running a campaign, I'm usually looking to do something very different for the next.

My first campaign was entirely homebrew. I did work in some published material into it, but only where they made sense for the setting and what the party was up to. The world map, cultures, cities, etc. were all home-brewed. I ran that campaign from March 2015 (I had working on the campaign world in the winter of 2014, before I started running it) until December 2017. I was exhausted with the prep time I was putting into it so my next campaign was Curse of Strahd. Ran that from January 2018 through October 2018.

I then started a Rappan Athuk campaign in October 2018 and we finished that campaign in December 2023. For that campaign, I tweaked, borrowed, and homebrewed rules for factions, reputation, downtime, and strongholds, but initially ran the adventure and setting material as written. But over the years, based on the PCs actions, I changed things.

Now I'm running Warhammer Fantasy 4e, mixing the various published Ubersreik material with the Enemy Within campaign. We started that in January this year.

I would like to go back to running another campaign in my homebrew world, advancing the timeline by several centuries. But my work and family obligations don't afford me the time do put the work in.

To scratch my "world building" itch, I instead occasionally run one shots or mini-campaigns with rules-light systems, like InSPECTREs, Dread, Grim, and Dialect. The adventures are more improve and collaboratively created, but I get to present the setting. It very much mini-setting building, but it is fun and allows me to play with a bunch of ideas and seeing what the players create from it.

I'll admit to being a bit precious with my homebrew D&D setting and have gotten very negative reactions in threads when discussed things like character limitations. It is very much an example of enjoying the secondary hobby of creating and curating a setting for players to experience. I know it isn't something everyone would enjoy, but my players enjoyed it.

 

[Desdichado]

So, sure. if you discount sources where your statements aren't true, then your statements are accurate. But, let's skip the discounting of the entire Basic D&D line (1977-1991).
For your consideration: ... from the covers of AD&D 1e, not 2e.
You're right. It's not aimed at 12-year-olds.
It was aimed at ten-year-olds (and above).
View attachment 364288
From AD&D DMG, PH, and MMII ('78-'79) as general samples.

That's funny. My copies of all three don't say that. PHB will have to stand in for all three; I'm not scanning all of them.

Of course, if some suit related to the Blumes decided later on in the edition's lifecycle that they could make more revenue by slapping "Ages 10 and up" on the cover of a book that had demons, nudity and more in it, that doesn't exactly make it a coherent strategy or even a coherent thing to say. Especially when the Basic D&D cover specifically said that it was an ADULT fantasy roleplaying game.

Discounting the entire Basic D&D line indeed.

The whole reason the game was popular with kids is specifically because it WASN'T a kids game.

 

[MNblockhead]

D&D was the game that turned boys into men.

Or retarded our development.

Opinions vary.

 

[Parmandur]

The whole reason the game was popular with kids is specifically because it WASN'T a kids game.

Yes, that was an intentional marketing strategy.

 

[billd91]

Yes, that was an intentional marketing strategy.

Well, it was cool and sophisticated compared to Life and Operation. It said “Adult” on the cover… though the very first paragraph of the Holmes Basic edition’s Introduction does say it’s for 12 and up.

The Easley 1e covers included the helpful blurb that the game was for ages 10 and up. So, at least TSR was being a bit more explicit in their marketing.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Honestly, I NEED to do top-down worldbuilding, because I need to know what people believe in

That answers “why Greyhawk”. It comes with a pre-made pantheon. Creating religion is difficult even for experienced adults. The advice for a young first time DM has to be “choose something off the peg”.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Why do you keep talking about historical lore dumps when most worldbuilding has nothing to do with historical lore

It doesn’t matter if it’s historical, geographical, biological or theological, it’s still not interesting to the players.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It is very much an example of enjoying the secondary hobby of creating and curating a setting for players to experience

This is the important point. World building like this, especially top down, is a secondary hobby. It’s something you do for your own entertainment, not for players.

 

[Minigiant]

Just kinda wished that if they were putting a setting in the DMG, it would highlight the info in the PHB better.

Like the 2014 DMG spends page 19-19 on explaining governments and has a table to roll governments.
It would have been cool that if the DMG actually rolls a government for species and develops a setting from the chaos they unleash, teaching how to make a setting. Create the nations. Create the pantheons. Create the bad guys. Create why the dungeons exist. Create why the magic items exist. Create them.

You only need 30-50% a chapter to teach how to make a D&D setting. And the DMG is the only place where that info is appropriate.

For fun here are my rolls

1. Human: Confederacy
2. Aasimar: Theocracy (lol on the nose)
3. Dragonborn: Oligarchy
4. Dwarf: Confederacy ( I guess the mountains don't unite)
5. Ef: Dictatorship
6. Goliath: Republic
7. Gnome: Confederacy again.
8. Halfling (Human Majority): Feudalism
9. Orc: Meritocracy
10. Tiefling: Autocracy (Infernal Empire. Let's go baby)