Grappling

[Dr. Zoom]

You cannot substitute an opposed grapply check with an Escape Artist check unless it is your turn and you are trying to escape a pin or grapple. When you do this, if you tie, you win. At least if you treat these as pseudo attack rolls. If you use the opposed roll rule quoted above by Jack, then the tie will not win automatically. You would compare the dex of the one using Escape Artist and the Strength of his opponent. The one with the higher score wins.

 

[Junkheap]

So i got it right and the players got it wrong. I brought up the stalemate rule as jack has said, but the pc's argued that it shouldn't come to that point.

All this argument was brought up by one player btw, and later the others joined in.

That player sited escape artist as a prime example why a tie would go to the defender. He also states that diarming and trip attacks work the same way.

Either way to clarify on the escape artist, can the defender against a grapple use it when someone is trying to grapple him?
I think it states it requires a standard action to do so, so technically he cannot right?

I ask this because under escape artist(from my head btw)it states that you can use it to escape a grapple. Does it mean already grappled or in the process of grappling?

under grappler phb pg68(escape artist): You can make an escape artist check opposed by your enemy's grapple check to get out of a grapple or get out of a pinned condition(so that you are just being grappled). Doing so is a standard action, so if you can escape the grapple you can move in the same round(see wriggle fre.....bla bla)

Thanks for your help so far guys. I am playing tonight so i hopefully can get this clarified. (Most people are leaning towards my ruling that was overruled by the players so far).

 

[smetzger]

You cannot substitute an opposed grapply check with an Escape Artist check unless it is your turn and you are trying to escape a pin or grapple.

Doh, didn't realize you could only use Escape Artist to wriggle free and not to stop someone from pinning you. I'll hafta rule 0 that one.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

So i got it right and the players got it wrong. I brought up the stalemate rule as jack has said, but the pc's argued that it shouldn't come to that point.

I would agree with you. That is how I do it. It is like attacking and AC. If you roll the AC or better, you hit. I would not be opposed, however, to settling ties with the better key ability score method. I suggest you pick one method and stick to it where grappling is concerned.

That player sited escape artist as a prime example why a tie would go to the defender. He also states that diarming and trip attacks work the same way.

The problem with his argument is that he is not rolling against a static DC. He is rolling an opposed roll. Opposed rolls are adjudicated differantly than skill checks.

Either way to clarify on the escape artist, can the defender against a grapple use it when someone is trying to grapple him?

No. This use of the skill requires a standard action. He may only use it on his turn, and he may only use it to escape a pin or grapple.

I think it states it requires a standard action to do so, so technically he cannot right?

Right, he cannot take a standard action when it is not his turn, so he cannot use Escape Artist except when it is his turn and he wants to escape a grapple or a pin.

I ask this because under escape artist(from my head btw)it states that you can use it to escape a grapple. Does it mean already grappled or in the process of grappling?

Already grappled. He is either grappled or he is not. If he is, he may use Escape Artist as a standard action to escape.

 

[noretoc]

I have to agree with the atacker winning. The reason is the wording. it says "if you succeed" there you have a target number to meet or beat, not the defender. Your target is what ever he rolls. If it said have the defender make an opposed roll, if he succeeds, then I would asy the other way.