• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 5E Grapple in 5e

werecorpse

Adventurer
I suspect this has already been discussed but I couldn't find it so if is I apologise for bringing it up again

Whenevr I think I understand grapple a PC does stuff that needs further thought.

If a PC grapples someone (X) on round 1 and X fails to escape on his turn:

- does the PC have to do anything on his next turn (give up an attack, make another roll?) to maintain the grapple?
- can the PC say hold X with his off hand and cast a spell, or strike him with his weapon?
- if X has multiple attacks does he get multiple chances to break the grapple?
- if X is prone is he at disadvantage to break the grapple?
- if X decides to "grab the PC's weapon arm" how is this resolved? (Seems like a grapple?)
- if the PC has a shield in his off hand can he use it to bash X with an improvised weapon? If so does he get to keep the shield bonus to AC?

ah grapple thou art ever an enigma.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

redrick

First Post
I suspect this has already been discussed but I couldn't find it so if is I apologise for bringing it up again

Whenevr I think I understand grapple a PC does stuff that needs further thought.

If a PC grapples someone (X) on round 1 and X fails to escape on his turn:

- does the PC have to do anything on his next turn (give up an attack, make another roll?) to maintain the grapple?
- can the PC say hold X with his off hand and cast a spell, or strike him with his weapon?
- if X has multiple attacks does he get multiple chances to break the grapple?
- if X is prone is he at disadvantage to break the grapple?
- if X decides to "grab the PC's weapon arm" how is this resolved? (Seems like a grapple?)
- if the PC has a shield in his off hand can he use it to bash X with an improvised weapon? If so does he get to keep the shield bonus to AC?

ah grapple thou art ever an enigma.

Grappling, as defined in the rules, is fairly limited in scope and utility. It allows the Grappler to control the movement (and nothing else) of the Grappled creature. That's it. There is no reference to what exactly is grappled and what the Grappler needs to do to preserve the grapple. (Such as giving up a hand to hold the target, for instance.)

That being said, in every campaign I've DM'ed or played in, grappling has been ruled as a precondition for all sorts of different actions against other characters, including tying up arms, weapons, etc.

To answer your specific questions, as best I understand them:

"Does the PC have to do anything on his next turn..."
No. The grapple continues until the grappler chooses to end it, is incapacitated, moved out of range by a spell or effect (such as thunderwave or teleport), or the target successfully escapes the grapple as an action on his or her turn. (See Grappled condition on Basic Rules page 105.)

"Can the PC ... cast a spell or strike with his weapon?"
Yes. Because, as written, the grapple does not require the grappler to give up a free hand, they can continue to act normally once they are grappling somebody. Of course, the target can also act normally and attack whoever is grappling them without penalty, so long as they are able to make melee attacks.

"If X has multiple attacks, does he get multiple attempts to break the grapple?"
No. See Basic Rules pg 74: "A grappled creature can use its action to escape." It does not say that it uses its Attack action to escape. The text on Grappling explicitly allows the Grapple to substitute one of multiple attacks with the Attack action.

"If X is prone is he at disadvantage to break the grapple?"
No. The prone condition only give disadvantage to attack rolls, not ability checks. The grapple does, however, keep the target from standing. (Again, see Prone and Grappled conditions on Basic Rules page 105.)

"If X decides to grab the PC's weapon on arm, how is this resolved?"
This is a DM ruling. Personally, I would treat this as a specific grapple. If successful, the target would not be able to attack until the grapple is broken, and the grappler would need to use one or both of his or her hands to hold the weapon arm. (Depending on size of weapon.) A subsequent athletics check could possibly be made to try to disarm the PC, though I would probably impose disadvantage to the grappler. Grappling a sword would also probably be harder than grappling a quarter-staff. All up to the DM as the situation warrants, of course.

"If the PC has a shield in his off-hand, can he use it to bash X with an improvised weapon?"
Yes. As discussed elsewhere, Crawford's ruling on this seems to be that the Shield maintains its AC bonus when being used as an improvised weapon. On the other hand, because it does not resemble another weapon, the attack would probably be made without proficiency, unless the PC had the Tavern Brawler feat.

Again, it's pretty limited as covered in the rules. On the other hand, there's nothing stopping the DM from using the Grappling framework (opposed athletics check, option to use an Action to escape) as a way to cover any range of creative actions players might want their characters to attempt. Common sense should prevail. But if the player wants to accomplish more than just controlling the movement of their target, they should probably tie up at least one (if not 2) hands, and/or make multiple successful checks.
 
Last edited:

"Can the PC ... cast a spell or strike with his weapon?"
Yes. Because, as written, the grapple does not require the grappler to give up a free hand,
That is one way to interpret the text. To me it's clear the grappler is using the hand to grapple until they release the grapple.
Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check, a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the grappled condition (see appendix A). The condition specifies the things that end it, and you can release the target whenever you like (no action required).



"If X has multiple attacks, does he get multiple attempts to break the grapple?"
No. See Basic Rules pg 74: "A grappled creature can use its action to escape." It does not say that it uses its Attack action to escape. The text on Grappling explicitly allows the Grapple to substitute one of multiple attacks with the Attack action.
While true, Using multiple attacks to make Shoves works just fine to break the grapple via the reach stipulation.

The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell.
 

PnPgamer

Explorer
If a PC grapples someone (X) on round 1 and X fails to escape on his turn:

- does the PC have to do anything on his next turn (give up an attack, make another roll?) to maintain the grapple?
- can the PC say hold X with his off hand and cast a spell, or strike him with his weapon?
- if X has multiple attacks does he get multiple chances to break the grapple?
- if X is prone is he at disadvantage to break the grapple?
- if X decides to "grab the PC's weapon arm" how is this resolved? (Seems like a grapple?)
- if the PC has a shield in his off hand can he use it to bash X with an improvised weapon? If so does he get to keep the shield bonus to AC?

- No, only initiation of grapple requires an attack to be changed into a grapple attempt. The subject of the grapple however, can still use its action to do anything normally except move, and his movement is just dropped to 0. Subject can also attempt to escape from grapple.
- by hold x you mean grapple a foe? yes he can cast spells and attack with his other hand, or even grapple a new target.
- grappled subject can only attempt escape as an action. He doesn't get additional tries by how many attacks he has.
- No, being prone grants disadvantage on attack rolls. Escaping or initiating a grapple is an ability check, namely Strength(athletics) (for initiation and escape) or Dexterity(acrobatics) (escape only)
- Grapple is only there to answer if holding someone and preventing his movement. grab the PC's weapon arm is a DM call.
- Shield AC bonus should still apply even if bashing with a shield. This has created much controversy however, and some DM's are stuck on previous edition rules and want to say no.

I just basicly confirmed what has been answered already.
 
Last edited:

redrick

First Post
That is one way to interpret the text. To me it's clear the grappler is using the hand to grapple until they release the grapple.

While true, Using multiple attacks to make Shoves works just fine to break the grapple via the reach stipulation.

Ah yes, I missed that in my reading of the Grapple text yesterday. It looks like the rules do require you to keep that free hand tied up for the duration of the grapple. Good! Of course, you can still use the other hand for normal actions.

Also, good point about multiple Shoves. I hadn't thought about that. For characters that would be using a Dex/Acrobatics escape, it's a bit of a trade-off, but for characters that would just use the Str/Athletics, it's the clear way to go. (According to Crawford, monsters and NPCs with Multiattack can't substitute Shoves or Grapples for one of their attacks. Personally, I ignore or adjust that ruling in a lot of cases, but it's out there.)

I like to ask players for a bit more specificity whenever they attempt to Grapple something. What exactly are they trying to do and how are they trying to do it? I can then make additional rulings on top of the contested athletics check. I think of the generic grapple as the equivalent of a collar tie in wrestling — grab your opponent by the neck with one hand, in order to control his or her movement.
 

pming

Legend
Hiya!

Short answer: You're the DM, adjudicate! :)

Longer answer: As with many, many things in 5e...the rules are not separate and independent things without regards or consideration from each other. The Grapple "rules" are explicitly vague. Why? Because otherwise we'd have 16 pages of 6-point font listing 2,342 different "things you can and can't do when Grappling". That would be stupid. So, RPG's have a "catch all" rule that is simply this: "When in doubt...make it up".

Every single one of the OP's original "point questions" are easily adjudicated on a case by case basis by an individual DM. Does the PC have to do anything the next round to maintain his grapple? (A) the subject is small, quick, and covered in oil...then, yes, he does; (B) the subject is the same size, average speed, and wearing normal clothes...then maybe; (C) the subject is the same size, drunk, on the ground and not really struggling...then no. The point is, each of those A-B-C situations is easily handled by a DM thinking about the situation and making a reasonable ruling. To start coming up with all these nuances of "grappling" is futile. It is a useless endevour. There is NEVER a perfect rule that will fit every situation in an RPG. Hell, there are barely any rules that will apply to 'most situations'. Well, except for one. That one being "The DM makes :):):):) up when the rules don't cover the situation adequately".

So, my suggestion: Stop trying to "find rules" to give you a yes/no result. In stead, think about it, use the rules there as guidelines, make up what you need, be as consistent as you can.

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

discosoc

First Post
Grappling can be an awesome team tactic. Grapple the target, then use the shove action on your next turn (or as your second attack if you get two as a fighter or something, but not from "dual wielding"). Alternatively, grapple a target that's already prone. Point being, the prone target can't get up because it requires movement, which has been set to 0 due to being grappled. And since they are prone, everyone (including you) gets advantage on attacks, and the target gets disadvantage. It becomes a total beatdown.

What's really nice about it is you can grapple something one size category larger. Since most monsters are limited in their saves and skills, it's basically your Str(Athletics) against their Str or Dex, which is heavily weighted in the PC's favor.
 

Grappling can be an awesome team tactic. Grapple the target, then use the shove action on your next turn (or as your second attack if you get two as a fighter or something, but not from "dual wielding"). Alternatively, grapple a target that's already prone. Point being, the prone target can't get up because it requires movement, which has been set to 0 due to being grappled. And since they are prone, everyone (including you) gets advantage on attacks, and the target gets disadvantage. It becomes a total beatdown.

What's really nice about it is you can grapple something one size category larger. Since most monsters are limited in their saves and skills, it's basically your Str(Athletics) against their Str or Dex, which is heavily weighted in the PC's favor.

And you know as well as I do that grappling goes well with Hex (Strength).

Occasionally it's worth grappling an enemy but deliberately NOT pushing him prone, instead spending your own actions to Dodge, if you have a bunch of allies using ranged attacks on the enemy.

Interestingly enough, grappling (because it is not an attack) is not prevented by Sanctuary; neither does a grappling attempt break Sanctuary. So if you're a Paladin of Devotion, you can cast Sanctuary and then attempt to grapple/prone one or two enemies.
 

redrick

First Post
Interestingly enough, grappling (because it is not an attack) is not prevented by Sanctuary; neither does a grappling attempt break Sanctuary. So if you're a Paladin of Devotion, you can cast Sanctuary and then attempt to grapple/prone one or two enemies.

Hmm, grappling specifically uses your attack action. I don't know that I would allow it to get around the restrictions of a spell like Sanctuary.

(I would certainly consider somebody grappling me to be "attacking" me.)
 


Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top