Graft questions

[Theroc]

Which source originally introduced grafts and explains the basic rules for grafts? I am seeing mentions of an HP penalty but haven't found it yet.

Additionally, what do people think of grafts from a optimization and flavor standpoint?

Are they good/bad/neither?

Some of the ideas look pretty cool, though the ones with save DC's seem like they'd naturally be weak since there is little to be done to increase that DC to keep it comparable at higher levels.

 

[krupintupple]

not entirely certain, but i'm thinking either the draconomicron (draconic grafts), or lords of madness (weirdo grafts). to be honest though, i think lords of madness explains them much more fully, so that might be your best bet. haven't really had a lot of experience with them, mostly because my PCs never recognize them on fallen foes - even if they do, they don't seem to think they're worthwhile. c'est la vie i suppose.

 

[Theroc]

They don't seem to give specifics on the HP penalty mentioned.

Some of the grafts look very good, particularly the Silthilar from Lords of Madness(They are also more expensive though). No super activated things, but several nice passive effects.

Hm... I'll have to see if my DM allows them.

 

[Herzog]

I know the Draconimicon specifically mentions the receiver having to pay a 'sacrifice', which is recorded with each graft in the form of permanent hp loss.

 

[Theroc]

I know the Draconimicon specifically mentions the receiver having to pay a 'sacrifice', which is recorded with each graft in the form of permanent hp loss.

Yeah, I finally found that. Are those HP penalties small compared to the abilities? I ask because I think most of them I could get in a less costly way through other grafts.

 

[Herzog]

doing this from memory, but yeah, hp penalties are small.

That's relative, of course. If you play a barbarian with high hp, you'll hardly notice it.
A wizard or sorcerer however, will definately feel the sting.

I sacraficed a total of 4 hp myself one time as a dragonwrought kobold sorcerer for the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, and I definately felt that at lvl 7-ish
Now, at lvl 11, not so much anymore (getting an amulet of health helped)

Also, some of the grafts require you to have other grafts first. They may not interest you, but cost hp as well, so take that into account.

Last but not least: there are restrictions to what kind of grafts you can combine. IIRC, you can have a maximum of 5 grafts, and you can have no more than 1 type of graft (undead, draconic, elemental, etc) although I'm not sure that also applies to construct grafts and/or abberation grafts.

I believe Faiths of Eberron also has some graft types and rules about them.

 

[Theroc]

Yeah, the grafting rules seem a bit confusing, since they keep changing them. Anyhow, it looks to me like grafts are a decent solution to my desire to have the power grow in the CHARACTER and not his equipment... some races grafts being better than others. (Silthilar being pretty dang good for passive bonuses.)

I think FoE added plant grafts, elemental grafts, 'deathless' grafts and some other kind too.

 

[Jon_Dahl]

I find it a bit curious how expensive grafts are. I don't remember the details right now, but for instance skeletal hand doing 1d4 normal damage costed quite a sum. Sometimes I think about putting grafts on NPC's, but it's hard to imagine why did they use thousands of gold pieces for some freakish and near-useless thing on their hand/forehear/ear etc.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Grafts have been presented in several different places. The earliest one I am aware of is Fiend Folio (although this copied from an artifact in BoVD that sort of did grafts). The hp costs were introduced later and appear in Races ofthe Dragon and Races of Eberron and probably other books. Lords of Madness also a great graft source.

I find it a bit curious how expensive grafts are.

In general, grafts are priced as slotless magic items. gloves that turn your hands into claw attacks would be priced similarly (albeit less because they take up a slot). Like magic items, the cost-effectiveness of grafts outside the "big six" bonuses is questionable. The hp costs of later grafts probably offset the gp cost somewhat. In general, slotless items are extremely expensive and not worth it, because most characters have at least some free item slots and do not have a terrible excess of gold to fill them with. Grafts are generally not the most effective way of creating a character, they are a fun form of customization that flavors well and performs well under special circumstances (they can't be stolen or lost or disarmed and work in antimagic).

 

[Theroc]

From what I've seen, Silthilar grafts seem the best insofar as benefit/penalty ratio, since there is no penalty outside GP costs, but they ARE expensive. 110,000 gold for an inherent +2 Str/dex/con, but it also sports things like Immunity to flanking, Fast Healing 2, a one/day immediate heal if you're brought below 0 HP, Increased initiative and some skill bonuses, etc...

The only requirement is that you not be undead.