Genesis: The Ultimate Wizard's Stronghold?

[andargor]

I was reading with interest the Genesis spell description (a non-Epic spell listed in EpicSpells.rtf in the 3.5 SRD).

Basically, you create your own demi-plane. From the description, I assume you can determine the planar traits, such as:

• Subjective Directional Gravity (each creature decides where "up" is)
• Flowing Time (3600:1, one hour on the demi-plane equals one second on the Prime. Great for creating items and researching Epic spells, or what?)
• Self-Contained Shape (you go off to one side of the plane, and pop out the other)
• Magically Morphic (I guess some spells could be used to change the features of the demi-plane)
• Sentient (your plane can think! Good as a guardian, I guess)
• Strongly Aligned to (insert your alignment here, really bug unwanted visitors)
• Enhanced Magic/Limited Magic (favor your spell schools)
• Dead Magic (what a surprise that would be. With an Epic Spell on you to become immune to Antimagic Field, you're the only one that can cast!)

Has anyone had any experience with demi-planes like this used as a PC's stronghold? The above traits would make it a dream.

"100 day casting time for that Epic Spell? No problem, let me go into my pocket plane for a few minutes, I'll be right back..."

Also, how would you create a demi-plane with the Static trait? How do you suppress a trait?

Andargor

 

[Otterscrubber]

Actually it seems a bit vague on what you are allowed to do. It says for sure that the caster decides on things like atmosphere, temperature, terrrain and other physical properties but it doesn't indicate if you control any other planar traits. Sounds like it might take some house ruling or working with the DM on this.

 

[Nifft]

The SRD does not list most of those things as variables that you can set, especially not time. Here's the SRD Psionics (XPH) version of Genesis:

Genesis
Metacreativity (Creation)
Level: Shaper 9
Display: Material
Manifesting Time: One week (8 hours/day)
Range: 180 ft.; see text
Effect: A demiplane coterminous with the Astral Plane, centered on your location
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 17, XP

You create a finite plane with limited access: a demiplane. Demiplanes created by this power are very small, very minor planes. This power works best when manifested while you are on the Astral Plane. Manifestation of this power creates a local density fluctuation that precipitates the creation of a demiplane. At first, the fledgling plane grows in radius at a rate of 1 foot per day to an initial maximum radius of 180 feet as it rapidly draws substance from the surrounding astral ectoplasm. Once the new demiplane reaches its maximum size, it doesn’t really stop growing, but its growth rate decreases to only 1 foot per week (approximately a 50-foot increase in radius per year). Once your demiplane is created, you can travel to it using astral caravan, plane shift, or some other power or permanent link that you arrange for separately.

You determine the environment within the demiplane when you manifest genesis, reflecting most any desire you can visualize. You determine factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the general shape of the terrain. This power cannot create life (including vegetation), nor can it create construction (such as buildings, roads, wells, dungeons, and so forth). You must add these details in some other fashion if you desire. You can’t create lingering psionic effects with this power; you have to add those separately, if desired. Similarly, you can’t create a demiplane out of esoteric material, such as silver or uranium; you’re limited to stone and dirt. You can’t manipulate the time trait on your demiplane; its time trait is as the Material Plane. Once your demiplane reaches 180 feet in radius, you can manifest this power again to gradually add another 180 feet of radius to it, and so on.

Antigenesis: If genesis is manifested on the Material Plane, the power takes effect and the demiplane begins to grow at the rate noted above, but it gets no larger than a radius of 1 foot per level. The energies of the new plane are exactly canceled by the energies of the original plane, creating a dead spot like a limited cancer on the original plane. The expanding boundary of the dead spot wipes away all construction, crumbles natural land forms, and evaporates water, leaving behind a uniformly level area of inert dust. Living creatures that pass the boundary of the growing dead spot are not directly affected, but plants can find no sustenance in the dust of the dead spot, water-breathing creatures die quickly when water turns to dust, and mobile animals know enough to leave the area alone. Once the wave of change passes, no special essence remains in the dead spot, and it may be colonized naturally over the course of several years by bacteria, plants, and animals.

XP Cost: 1,000 XP.

I hope this sheds some light on what the Magic version is intended to do.

-- N

 

[dcollins]

And there's also a version in the Divine SRD. Part of it says:

The character determines the environment in the demiplane when he or she first casts genesis, reflecting most any desire he or she can visualize. The caster determines factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the shape of the general terrain. However, the spell cannot create life, nor can it create construction. If desired, these must be brought in by some other fashion.

I assume that's an exclusive list. Atmosphere, water, temperature, and general shape. That's it.

 

[James McMurray]

Yep. Allowing anything else would be unbalanced, especially allowing control of time flow. Imagine having something where memorizing Gate would let your party fully heal, rebuff, and rememorize spells while only a single round passed for your enemies.

 

[Saeviomagy]

And there's also a version in the Divine SRD. Part of it says:

I assume that's an exclusive list. Atmosphere, water, temperature, and general shape. That's it.

Yeah, because where I come from, such as is ALWAYS used to denote an exclusive list.

Sorry, but as read, there's nothing to stop you from creating a demiplane with super-speed time and every metamagic always applied to all spells.

In short, it's wrong and broken. But since it was originally a cleric spell, that's probably to be expected.

I'd suggest that the DM should probably put together some sort of pricing scheme for demiplanes produced with this spell - it's cool if you can have some of these funky effects, but getting all of them for free is just wrong.

 

[Shaele]

Yeah, because where I come from, such as is ALWAYS used to denote an exclusive list.

Sorry, but as read, there's nothing to stop you from creating a demiplane with super-speed time and every metamagic always applied to all spells.

Actually, I think it's _this_ line in the SRD description that precludes your super-speed time trick.

>> You can’t manipulate the time trait on your demiplane; its time trait is as the Material Plane.

 

[mercucio]

If I recall correctly, with spells the MRP (most recent printing) rule holds true to spells (including psionic powers that mimic spells, lets not nit-pick here), thus the description in the XPH SRD trumps that found in the Divine SRD.

- Merucio.

 

[jodyjohnson]

If you want to use the spell to create additional planar traits I would start pricing it as a magic item and then add the material cost and experience cost for such an item. Likely adding some additional spell prerequisites or feat prerequisites if that is the intention.

The base cost would be fair for the plane and basic terrain/atmosphere only.

Permanent metamagic > require the feat and more expensive than the greater metamagic rod.
Advanced time > Time Stop as a permanent item
Aligned > Forbiddence as a permanent item of that area
Sentient > using the Intelligent item rules or golem creation rules
etc

If you coughed up enough cash I would allow any effect normally associated with planar traits. 5000xp for the spell cost wouldn't be enough to pay for a magic item of Mages Magnificent Mansion or a Greater Rod of Quickening or even Maximise.

The experience cost is not high enough to justify free access to the kind of abilities free reign on planar traits would allow.

It might be worth covering in a book that also covers some of the other spells with possibly extensive capabilities.

 

[Vaxalon]

I think it should be important to include the SRD text of the Genesis SPELL (rather than POWER):

[/quote]
Genesis
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Creation 9
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 1 week (8 hours/day)
Range: 180 ft. (see text)
Effect: A demiplane coterminous with the Ethereal Plane, centered on your location
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
The spellcaster creates a finite plane with limited access: a demiplane. Demiplanes created by this power are very small, very minor planes.
A character can only cast this spell while on the Ethereal Plane. When he or she casts the spell, a local density fluctuation precipitates the creation of a demiplane. At first, the fledgling plane grows at a rate of 1 foot in radius per day to an initial maximum radius of 180 feet as it rapidly draws substance from surrounding ethereal vapors and protomatter.
The spellcaster determines the environment within the demiplane when he or she first casts genesis, reflecting most any desire the spellcaster can visualize. The spellcaster determines factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the general shape of the terrain. This spell cannot create life (including vegetation), nor can it create construction (such as buildings, roads, wells, dungeons, and so forth). The spellcaster must add these things in some other fashion if he or she desires. Once the basic demiplane reaches its maximum size, the spellcaster can continue to cast this spell to enlarge the demiplane, adding another 180 feet of radius to the demiplane each time.
Material Component: A crystalline sphere
XP Cost: 5,000 XP.
[/quote]