D&D 5E First World: Possibly One of the New D&D setting?

[Micah Sweet]

Then there's absolutely zero reason why the statblock should reflect that. If people with hunchbacks are just people with hunchbacks, then they don't need to be a separate race.

The only reason to keep the caliban as a separate race is if you actually want them to be a race of people who are literally cursed for having birth defects and disabilities.

Why would the statblock reflect it?

 

[dave2008]

I didn't. I said that if you're going to alter the world, you should do it such that the unkind beliefs people have are clearly in the wrong. The way the Vistani were updated in the revised Curse of Strahd was great. The bad people are wrong, not gone. Just like real life. Many people have suggested that including slavery in Dark Sun is fine as long as it's being portrayed as the evil it is. That's all I'm talking about.

Except you kinda did. You may not have intended too, but if you look at your quotes in post #229, it really feels like you did. It happens. I, more often than I would like, find myself responding to multiple posts and getting a little sideways with my responses so that when taken together they imply something I didn't intend.

 

[dave2008]

A lot of people here seem to think that intolerant people simply shouldn't exist in games, and that settings that have them should be changed to fit this idea. I don't think these kind of evils should be removed, but rather shown to be evil and fought.

I don't think that is what people are saying though. I think it is a misunderstanding from both sides. You think people are saying something they are not, or the don't intend, and people think you are saying something your are not or don't intend.

Personally I am fine with racism, sexism, and all manner of stupidity in a fictional world. However, I have need for it to be in an rpg product and I have no need for it to be ingrained in the rules.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Except you kinda did. You may not have intended too, but if you look at your quotes in post #229, it really feels like you did. It happens. I, more often than I would like, find myself responding to multiple posts and getting a little sideways with my responses so that when taken together they imply something I didn't intend.

Fair enough. I may have mispoke, and if so, I apologize. I really just don't believe the evils of humanity should be excised from our fiction, but should rather be identified as such so they can be fought. That way we're on the right side, and we don't pretend the dark parts of our nature don't exist.

 

[Faolyn]

Why would the statblock reflect it?

<sigh>

By making them their own statblock, you are literally saying they are a different race with a different history. You are making them not human. And caliban are supposed to be human, but cursed.

If they aren't actually cursed, then they're just human, and you can use the human statblock to represent them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

<sigh>

By making them their own statblock, you are literally saying they are a different race with a different history. You are making them not human. And caliban are supposed to be human, but cursed.

If they aren't actually cursed, then they're just human, and you can use the human statblock to represent them.

There isn't a human statblock. There are tons of them. I don't know what you're saying.

 

[dave2008]

Back to the OP. I do think it is a possibility that a "Firsts World" setting could be coming soon. However, I am not sure it is likely. For me, they big draw for a such a setting would be if it had a dragon focus (like Perkins Iomandra setting). That could potentially step on the toes of Dragonlance a bit.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

A lot of people here seem to think that intolerant people simply shouldn't exist in games, and that settings that have them should be changed to fit this idea. I don't think these kind of evils should be removed, but rather shown to be evil and fought.

No. That is literally not what anyone has been saying. I'm fine with slavery, bigotry, and stuff like that existing in fictional worlds where it's clear that it's evil.

I'm not fine with the depiction of certain people in the setting being real world bigoted. Vistani and the Aperusa are real-world bigoted against the Romani people, and their depiction in Curse of Strahd still has them with all of the racist Romani stereotypes (drunkards, thieves, scum, etc).

I love Eberron and how Warforged are victims of racism in the setting. Part of the draw to play a Warforged other than "magical robot man" is to have to deal with the trope What Measure is a Non-Human. Dark Sun is fine because slavery is shown to be a bad thing perpetrated by an awful system and tyrannical rulers. I like how Exandria depicts the Kryn Dynasty as being discriminated against/distrusted because they're "monstrous" races. That is all fine. That stuff can (and should) stay in the respective settings being translated to official D&D 5e products.

Having a race/culture that's whole purpose in the setting is to be laughed at by the players/readers (Gully Dwarves, Tinker Gnomes) or that reinforces real-world negative stereotypes (Romani, Aperusa, Caliban, the Red and Yellow Orcs from Orcs of Thar, etc)? No. That's not fine. That is where I draw the line.

 

[dave2008]

Fair enough. I may have mispoke, and if so, I apologize. I really just don't believe the evils of humanity should be excised from our fiction, but should rather be identified as such so they can be fought. That way we're on the right side, and we don't pretend the dark parts of our nature don't exist.

I don't think most people are saying that though. Ignorant beliefs can existing, they IMO, are just pointing out that the books don't need to reinforce them.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

However, I am not sure it is likely. For me, they big draw for a such a setting would be if it had a dragon focus (like Perkins Iomandra setting). That could potentially step on the toes of Dragonlance a bit.

I'm not sure if that's a big deal. Plenty of D&D settings have a dragon-focus. Eberron, Iomandra, and Krynn all can all coexist. And there's no reason why a "First World" setting book would have to actually portray the First World like Fizban's does (because it's a mythical poem from the viewpoint of the Dragons).