Finding the right flavor of D&D for my group

[Quickleaf]

If I were you I really would think about switching to a rules light system because you only meet once a month or less. So I think it is important that you choose a system that is fast paced and where fights do not take too long. Rules light also helps getting into the game again quickly after a monthly or two-month break. It also supports a higher number of players because turns do not take that long and everyone can have fun at the table.

Oh, I definitely am thinking about it! Believe me! However, I need a system that doesn't require the players to re-familiarize themselves with new rules and which feels like D&D... Practically this problem means races, classes, hit points, levels, rolling a d20 to attack, Armor Class, spell casting, etc. So probably some d20 system variant.

This is basically one of the main reasons our group switched to a rules light system (Castles&Crusades) because we as well only play once a month or less. And C&C proved simple and fast enough to support our play style.

Hmm. C&C is the OD&D / 1e hybrid using d20 rules and a "prime/base (12/18)" system, right?

I think there are other systems out there that are in the same league as C&C, like OSRIC, Swords and Wizardry, Munchkin ( ) et al. I would not go 1e or 2e because it might be hard to get the rule books easily. Unless you can live with PDF printouts.

I'm actually afraid that I've forgotten most of 1e (which OSRIC is based on)....but the thought has crossed my mind. Mostly concerned with character concepts that could not readily be reproduced in 1e like the bard or swordmage/bladesinger.

As for what we play; we usually play the dungeon crawlin' style because it is easy to step into the adventure again after longer breaks. Well, we always preferred dungeon crawling to open world RPGs but I think it would be more complicated to play open word scenarios because there thend to be such alot of NPCs, twists and plots that you tend to forget the important stuff if you only play infrequently. Dungeons are simple (sometimes).

As much as I'm loathe to admit it, this is probably the style that best suits my group too. Le sigh.

The more I look at 5e (or D&D Next if you prefer), the more I think it would be about the happy middle ground for this group.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm going to make two pitches.

1: Swords and Wizardry. Or, failing that, Labyrinth Lord. Go right the way back to the earliest, simplest system you can. And they tend to be very good for dungeon crawling.

2: 13th Age. Surprisingly simple and very evocative with large cinematic effects and good quest pacing. The skill system is that you have a rank in each of your (player-defined) backgrounds from 1-5 and if you can describe how the roll fits your background you get to roll that plus your stat. Also all PCs explicitely have One Unique Thing.

 

[S'mon]

Hmm. C&C is the OD&D / 1e hybrid using d20 rules and a "prime/base (12/18)" system, right?

Yes. I would have recommended C&C myself except for the one big issue, which is that in C&C save DCs escalate at the same rate as save bonuses - you add your level to both. This destroys the AD&D balancing between high-level casters and non-casters (casters are powerful, but non-casters are robust), which at 10th-11th level would be very frustrating for players of non-casters. However I suspect this may be solvable as simply as house-ruling that save bonuses stay the same, but save DCs are changed from "base + caster level" to "base + 1/2 caster level". And treat other ability check DCs the same way, so characters do actually get appreciably better at doing stuff as they level up.

Edit: C&C has a core Bard class that I like a lot, and Simon Washbourne did a bunch of variant classes with his usual brilliance - http://www.dragonsfoot.org/php4/archive.php?sectioninit=CC&fileid=221 - it includes a Spellsword class you can use for swordmage types.

 

[Gilladian]

Well, are you set on fantasy?

How about playing something like the 4e Gamma World with this group? It's similar enough to 4e that they'd "get it" quickly, but it is enough simpler to be easier to remember.

I think it stays in the lower levels of play, (never bought the expansion set), but otherwise seems to meet many of your requirements.

 

[Quickleaf]

I'll reply to the other posts later when I've got a bit more time, but for now...

Well, are you set on fantasy?

How about playing something like the 4e Gamma World with this group? It's similar enough to 4e that they'd "get it" quickly, but it is enough simpler to be easier to remember.

I think it stays in the lower levels of play, (never bought the expansion set), but otherwise seems to meet many of your requirements.

Actually, I'm not set on fantasy and have Star Wars Saga Edition as my alternative (which shares some elements with Gamma World and 4e). However, this group gravitates toward D&D, which is why I focused my question on the D&D family of games.

 

[Scribble]

DCC RPG is my current obsession.

It's a pretty easy system to learn (and it's d20 based).

Lot's of character death... but character are really quick to roll up.

 

[Quickleaf]

I'm going to make two pitches.

1: Swords and Wizardry. Or, failing that, Labyrinth Lord. Go right the way back to the earliest, simplest system you can. And they tend to be very good for dungeon crawling.

I have no experience with either of those. Care to share any highlights? Are they BD&D clones? Well suited for large groups?

2: 13th Age. Surprisingly simple and very evocative with large cinematic effects and good quest pacing. The skill system is that you have a rank in each of your (player-defined) backgrounds from 1-5 and if you can describe how the roll fits your background you get to roll that plus your stat. Also all PCs explicitely have One Unique Thing.

I like what I've read of 13th Age, but it seems like its sufficiently different from D&D that it would require a significant adjustment period. I mean, are there even classes/races?

Yes. I would have recommended C&C myself except for the one big issue, which is that in C&C save DCs escalate at the same rate as save bonuses - you add your level to both. This destroys the AD&D balancing between high-level casters and non-casters (casters are powerful, but non-casters are robust), which at 10th-11th level would be very frustrating for players of non-casters. However I suspect this may be solvable as simply as house-ruling that save bonuses stay the same, but save DCs are changed from "base + caster level" to "base + 1/2 caster level". And treat other ability check DCs the same way, so characters do actually get appreciably better at doing stuff as they level up.

Edit: C&C has a core Bard class that I like a lot, and Simon Washbourne did a bunch of variant classes with his usual brilliance - Dragonsfoot - Downloading file - it includes a Spellsword class you can use for swordmage types.

That netbook of classes is a great resource, thanks for the link! Do all C&C classes go to just level 12 like the ones in the netbook? I could see a character having a blast mixing and matching all the classes...like a cleric with crowner levels as a high holy investigator...but how is multi-classing in C&C? It seems like the classes (at least in the netbook) are front-loaded...

DCC RPG is my current obsession.

It's a pretty easy system to learn (and it's d20 based).

Lot's of character death... but character are really quick to roll up.

I've heard of the DCC 0th level character funnel! Then again, if I wanted to run a dungeon horror RPG I could always use Call of Cthulu or Dread

 

[mmadsen]

Do you need a formal rule set at all? Perhaps you could run a free kriegspiel form of the game:

The system for finding the results of combat in a free kriegspiel is classically simple. First of all the umpire looks at the position of each side: how many and what type of troops are involved; how their morale is bearing up; and what orders they have been given. He next considers the ground on which the action will be fought, and any special tactical problems which either side might encounter; whether there are any obstacles in the way of an attacker; whether a flank attack might be possible, and so on.

When the umpire has all relevant information at his disposal, he ought to be able to give an informed opinion on the probabilities of the result. He will not simply say something like 'The French infantry hassuccessfully stormed the hill', but will quote possibilities, such as: 'The French have a 50% chance of storming the hill successfully; a 30% chance of capturing half of it, while disputing the rest; and a 20% chance of being totally repulsed. High scores favour the French'. It is important that the umpire is as specific as possible with these figures, as this forces him to consider all the factors involved in the combat and to think through the full implications of his decision. He must also be clear whether a high dice roll will be good or bad for the attacker, i.e., whether the top 50% (a die roll of 5-9) or the bottom 50% (a roll of 0-4) will mean the hill has been carried. In this case he has stated that the high score will be good for the attacker.​

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION] Ok I did some reading about 13th age, and it looks kind of similar to 5e but with the inclusion of Icons. I like what I'm reading. However, it seems like it hasn't been released yet? Pelgrane Press has it on preorder and Amazon doesn't list it at all. I found the Kickstarter for the expansion, but nowhere to get the original book.

[MENTION=1645]mmadsen[/MENTION] Personally, I'd be fine with a mostly free-form game, but I know very few players who would be contented with that. Still, it's worth tossing out as an idea when we meet up.

Anyhow, the basic premise I'm shooting for is for the players to take their favorite character from any edition of D&D, convert them to <whatever system we decide on> at high level, say 11th. They've helped overthrow a tyrant and instill a young king with their old adventuring group - but it took many heroes to do it. Now, five years later, they meet up with some of these other heroes during a coming-of-age celebration for the young king.

 

[S'mon]

That netbook of classes is a great resource, thanks for the link! Do all C&C classes go to just level 12 like the ones in the netbook? I could see a character having a blast mixing and matching all the classes...like a cleric with crowner levels as a high holy investigator...but how is multi-classing in C&C? It seems like the classes (at least in the netbook) are front-loaded...

C&C classes are open-ended like in D&D, but most of the original PHB tables went to 12th level so Washbourne did that. Clerics & Wizards get spells up through 20th AIR. You can extend the tables - XP/level is flat, ability checks go up +1/level, hp +1 to +4/level etc.

Multiclassing - several versions of this. AD&D style multiclassing works, but if you look at Washbourne's classes you'll see many of them are actually combinations of two core classes, eg Goliard Cleric/Thief.