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Final Fantasy Zero: Design Diary continued
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 2761662" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>First, catpeople:</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2761598#post2761598" target="_blank">Linkie</a></p><p></p><p>Next, answers!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not entirely. Like in the FFTactics games, you can wait for a full round, or just part of one (still moving or spellcasting, for instance). So if someone executed an attack, and then "waited" instead of moved, that nets out at a 0 modifier. Or if someone moved and then waited, that would net a 0, too. So "waiting" is actually an action you can take, either as a full-round, standard, or partial action. I think a good high-level feat would let you "wait" as a free action, giving you a bit of a bonus to Init without spending time on it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not a bad plan. Tokens, dice-counters, all work fine. If I were to make sheets for my campaign (and I probably will), I'd just have a table, with the columns being rounds and the names being rows, since it's pretty easy to figure out when you go next from your highest intiative score.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There's no built-in upper limit like there's no built-in upper limit to total attack roll bonus. But there is a range that can be kind of expected at every level. The quickest characters probably won't be gaining more than 3 turns in a round, not including powers like X-Fight, Doublecast, etc. You could probably engineer a melee-damage-centered thief or ninja, who pumps out more damage per round by virtue of having more actions in which to do it. Such keeps quite in line with the series.</p><p></p><p>That said, the knight will hit more reliably, more often, and for more damage when he does hit. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Most of the time, you won't have to deal with more than one turn in around, except possibly for the lucky rollers or the characters built from the ground up for lickety speed. Chronists, thieves, ninjas, maybe idols...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The two modifiers are kind of unrelated.</p><p></p><p>Basically, a "normal round" takes place on counts 20-1. The usual range of a d20 roll, without modifiers. Especially fast characters can go before the round actually begins (on counts greater than 20), and then still get to go during the round (on counts less than 20). Effectively, fast characters can get 2 or 3 extra 1-20 ranges in which to act.</p><p></p><p>Taking any action, as normal in the series, causes a delay. In a system with ATB, this is easy to do, but it's hard to track combat with a stopwatch around a table, ya? So in FFZ, it's represented with those modifiers (which I'll probably call Delay Penalties or somesuch). </p><p></p><p>So if you don't take any action, you get to act sooner next round. And if you only take a bit of an action, you can get away without a delay. But if you spend all your energy in your turn, you're going to have to wait longer to be able to recover that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is part of it that might need the most clarifying. Think of it as a character's number of turns/round...this score is slightly randomized each round, and can be raised or lowered with certain actions in the round. They have a first turn, sometimes a second turn, rarely a third (and a fourth only for the GODS!)</p><p></p><p>The init modifier takes effect more or less instantly. A character with a 16 initiative who takes a full-round wait on his first turn will now have a 26 initiative, giving him a second turn on 6. Not next round -- this round. So when 6 rolls around, he can take his second turn. If his second turn is an attack and a wait, his score remains 26, giving him two turns on his next round, too. If his second turn is a full-round spell, his score drops to 16 again, giving him only one turn on the next round. He's already taken his first turn this round, and his score isn't high enough to grant him another. If his second turn is a full-round wait, his score increases to 36. This isn't enough for a third turn, and he's already had the two that an init of 36 gives him, but he gets two turns in the next round (at 36 and 16). If his first turn the next round is a full-round wait, he gets two more turns in the same round (at 26 and 6, now that his total initiative is 46). </p><p></p><p>Normally, this won't happen. Can you imagine a D&D character doing nothing but chilling there for three actions? And FFZ's abstract combat makes everyone much more vulnerable to potential attack, making it even less likely. Some of the tough characters with high HP might be able to get away with it, but the weight of their armor and their lack of Agility and their generally low Dex will mean that this is more compensating than actually getting high numbers. Some spellcasters might also risk it (especially with knights and paladins and white magicians guarding them), but the delay on their spells is almost as bad as the combined problem the tanks face, putting them in the same boat. High Dex characters can continue to delay, but then they're robbing the party of their most valuable asset (multiple actions) by just standing there. Sure, they could get 5 turns in a round, but generally a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush -- a turn now is worth two turns in three rounds. Especially when the front row is being hard-hit and the white mage is having trouble keeping up. </p><p></p><p>Furthermore, this kind of complex initiative is only possible because of the abstract combat system. Without having to worry about minis placement and mapping, you can worry about timing and flow, giving things a much more rhythmic, musical feel to it. It's not so much where you strike from as when you decide to strike. You may not get to attack every turn. That's fine. Time your attacks to have the most effect. *use* that initiative!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You got it. Since "waiting" counts as an action, disallowing actions as Stop and Sleep would do, disallows "waiting." Your initiative is locked in place, since you can't take any actions.</p><p></p><p>Though the idea of granting massive negative initiative is interesting, and might at least give the player something to do while he waits for the effects to wear off.</p><p></p><p>Haste = +20 Init.; Slow = -20 Init. </p><p></p><p>As usual, the critters that gain the most benefit are those that are already the best. Haste your Ninja and watch him pump out 8 attacks in a round. Slow the caller and you can sit secure knowing they won't get their big spells off. Of course, haste the caller and they're going to be protected from the slow. Slow the ninja and they won't be able to benefit from haste. For every rock, there's a paper, and for every paper, a scissor. Gray magic, of course, negates these, and white magic (like Esuna) can overcome that, too. But you're using rescources. That Esuna is one less Cura spell the white mage can cast, one step closer to weakening the enemy Samurai, a shift of the battle in your favor. </p><p></p><p>Gray magic (and effects like it) are key in FFZ in a way they aren't often in the games. Who wastes time with status magic? Those who don't want to be shredded by the first uber-buffed monster ninja/black mage that crosses their path, that's who.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 2761662, member: 2067"] First, catpeople: [URL=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2761598#post2761598]Linkie[/URL] Next, answers! Not entirely. Like in the FFTactics games, you can wait for a full round, or just part of one (still moving or spellcasting, for instance). So if someone executed an attack, and then "waited" instead of moved, that nets out at a 0 modifier. Or if someone moved and then waited, that would net a 0, too. So "waiting" is actually an action you can take, either as a full-round, standard, or partial action. I think a good high-level feat would let you "wait" as a free action, giving you a bit of a bonus to Init without spending time on it. Not a bad plan. Tokens, dice-counters, all work fine. If I were to make sheets for my campaign (and I probably will), I'd just have a table, with the columns being rounds and the names being rows, since it's pretty easy to figure out when you go next from your highest intiative score. There's no built-in upper limit like there's no built-in upper limit to total attack roll bonus. But there is a range that can be kind of expected at every level. The quickest characters probably won't be gaining more than 3 turns in a round, not including powers like X-Fight, Doublecast, etc. You could probably engineer a melee-damage-centered thief or ninja, who pumps out more damage per round by virtue of having more actions in which to do it. Such keeps quite in line with the series. That said, the knight will hit more reliably, more often, and for more damage when he does hit. ;) Most of the time, you won't have to deal with more than one turn in around, except possibly for the lucky rollers or the characters built from the ground up for lickety speed. Chronists, thieves, ninjas, maybe idols... The two modifiers are kind of unrelated. Basically, a "normal round" takes place on counts 20-1. The usual range of a d20 roll, without modifiers. Especially fast characters can go before the round actually begins (on counts greater than 20), and then still get to go during the round (on counts less than 20). Effectively, fast characters can get 2 or 3 extra 1-20 ranges in which to act. Taking any action, as normal in the series, causes a delay. In a system with ATB, this is easy to do, but it's hard to track combat with a stopwatch around a table, ya? So in FFZ, it's represented with those modifiers (which I'll probably call Delay Penalties or somesuch). So if you don't take any action, you get to act sooner next round. And if you only take a bit of an action, you can get away without a delay. But if you spend all your energy in your turn, you're going to have to wait longer to be able to recover that. This is part of it that might need the most clarifying. Think of it as a character's number of turns/round...this score is slightly randomized each round, and can be raised or lowered with certain actions in the round. They have a first turn, sometimes a second turn, rarely a third (and a fourth only for the GODS!) The init modifier takes effect more or less instantly. A character with a 16 initiative who takes a full-round wait on his first turn will now have a 26 initiative, giving him a second turn on 6. Not next round -- this round. So when 6 rolls around, he can take his second turn. If his second turn is an attack and a wait, his score remains 26, giving him two turns on his next round, too. If his second turn is a full-round spell, his score drops to 16 again, giving him only one turn on the next round. He's already taken his first turn this round, and his score isn't high enough to grant him another. If his second turn is a full-round wait, his score increases to 36. This isn't enough for a third turn, and he's already had the two that an init of 36 gives him, but he gets two turns in the next round (at 36 and 16). If his first turn the next round is a full-round wait, he gets two more turns in the same round (at 26 and 6, now that his total initiative is 46). Normally, this won't happen. Can you imagine a D&D character doing nothing but chilling there for three actions? And FFZ's abstract combat makes everyone much more vulnerable to potential attack, making it even less likely. Some of the tough characters with high HP might be able to get away with it, but the weight of their armor and their lack of Agility and their generally low Dex will mean that this is more compensating than actually getting high numbers. Some spellcasters might also risk it (especially with knights and paladins and white magicians guarding them), but the delay on their spells is almost as bad as the combined problem the tanks face, putting them in the same boat. High Dex characters can continue to delay, but then they're robbing the party of their most valuable asset (multiple actions) by just standing there. Sure, they could get 5 turns in a round, but generally a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush -- a turn now is worth two turns in three rounds. Especially when the front row is being hard-hit and the white mage is having trouble keeping up. Furthermore, this kind of complex initiative is only possible because of the abstract combat system. Without having to worry about minis placement and mapping, you can worry about timing and flow, giving things a much more rhythmic, musical feel to it. It's not so much where you strike from as when you decide to strike. You may not get to attack every turn. That's fine. Time your attacks to have the most effect. *use* that initiative! You got it. Since "waiting" counts as an action, disallowing actions as Stop and Sleep would do, disallows "waiting." Your initiative is locked in place, since you can't take any actions. Though the idea of granting massive negative initiative is interesting, and might at least give the player something to do while he waits for the effects to wear off. Haste = +20 Init.; Slow = -20 Init. As usual, the critters that gain the most benefit are those that are already the best. Haste your Ninja and watch him pump out 8 attacks in a round. Slow the caller and you can sit secure knowing they won't get their big spells off. Of course, haste the caller and they're going to be protected from the slow. Slow the ninja and they won't be able to benefit from haste. For every rock, there's a paper, and for every paper, a scissor. Gray magic, of course, negates these, and white magic (like Esuna) can overcome that, too. But you're using rescources. That Esuna is one less Cura spell the white mage can cast, one step closer to weakening the enemy Samurai, a shift of the battle in your favor. Gray magic (and effects like it) are key in FFZ in a way they aren't often in the games. Who wastes time with status magic? Those who don't want to be shredded by the first uber-buffed monster ninja/black mage that crosses their path, that's who. [/QUOTE]
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