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Final Fantasy Zero: Design Diary continued
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 2490049" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Thanks a lot for the scads of praise. It really helps me when I'm staring lines of wealth by level charts in the face. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a question with a BIG answer. Let's say it starts with the DM structure of the game. Though I'm starting with player information, FFZ gives crazy love to DM's in setting up a unique kind of feel. And it does so in more detail than the core DMG. See, 3e was definately cautious about not telling particular DM's that they're "playing the game wrong" if they play it differently. FFZ, on the other hand, is not shy about telling DM's how to get what they want out of the game. And if they're playinng FFZ, there's a solid chance they want a table-top game that plays something like a Final Fantasy game. So advice includes story structure, villain design, monster placement, job and tribe choices...in effect, it helps you to make selections for your game that reinforce a particular theme, depending on the campaign you're going for. And how every encounter should reinforce the ideas that are central to your campaign. In FFZ, there are no truly "random" encounters. Every monster has a motive to exist, and a cause behind its violent attacks. So that random ogre ambush on the side of the road doesn't just exist to roll some dice around -- it exists to show, for instance, how a typical giantish society operates. And later in the game, as you become diplomatic emmisarries to the giants, this ambush becomes important material for your characters to know.</p><p></p><p>Aside from solid and reliable DM advice (which I'm rediculously proud of -- making DM's think extensively about every die roll they ask the players to make), there is the fact that character choices come from the concepts. Mechanics are chosen to support these ideas. When you get a +1 to attack, the origin and development of your character and the world is expanded on. There is a reason you are better than you were beyond "I beat up more goblins." For some D&D games that would be too much micro-management, but FFZ liberates players and DM's to consider this kind of thing, because the measurable powers of the character are largely accounted for in the job. If you're not managing equipment and assigning various bonses, that's an extra few minutes in play that you have to build relationships and explore motives. This is especially important for the DM, who has to crunch the most numbers anyway. The mechanics of FFZ have been simplified as much as possible -- there's even an option for completely abstract combat (for the best videogame feel). When playing an FF game, number-crunching is something the computer does for you. In playing FFZ, number-crunching is what you do before you get to the table, more or less. </p><p></p><p>Combine that with multiple characters, easy resurrection, and (from the DM's side) story structure, building alternate worlds, making the heroes heroic, "glossing over the boring parts," sidequest and main-quest structures, and you've got something that isn't about getting a huge bonus (or at least, a huge bonus is kind of pointless when a pretty big bonus gets the job done just as easily), and is more about the characters and the world, and not so much about the fights and the stuff.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The biggest struggle is one between versimilitude and ease of play. Like, I referenced the abstract combat system above. This works great in a videogame, and makes table-top combats flow quickly and easily, but realistic, it ain't. Tactics are minimal. "Odd battlefields" are known in metagame to be special. And what this gains in ease, it surrenders by taking the players out of the world and into the knowledge that they're playing a game.</p><p></p><p>That's why abstract combat is optional, rather than core. It's an example of something that, to make it more like Final Fantasy, you would have to give up something that made it a table-top RPG (namely, tactical, battlefield fighting). </p><p></p><p>Minigames have also been a bit odd. Button-mashing, timing games, and tetra master don't translate to tabletop too well. It's possible, but to accomplish it, you'd have to bring in other things. Want to stop in the middle of your game session and play a hand of poker? Or go outside and run a race? While this certainly captures a "final fantasy feel," it kind of compromises the "table-top RPG" feel. </p><p></p><p>I'm sure there are others, but those two stand out at me. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm a notorious control freak about this project. Because it's really easy to get bogged down in discussions of how it should be done, and then nothing ends up actually getting done. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> I'd rather make a choice and go back and correct it later than talk about what choice I should make in comitee for a week before going ahead with it. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>Currently I'm working out how I'm representing the bonuses that jobs gain instead of treasure, and how I want the gil/level chart to work. In D&D, characters gain about 30% more wealth at each level, which leaves the low levels too poor to afford any bells and whistles, but leaves the higher levels rediculously well-enhanced. I can't get fire damage at 4th level, but by 40th I'll be lucky if I can find enough powers to give 'em! The problem is that it increases exponentially in D&D, while in FF, it's a more linear progression of power to power. Paired with that is the desire to keep it balanced with the core system -- making sure they ARE weak at 1st level, and strong at 40th. And then there's the fact that the bonuses just look *ugly* right now. There's not a smooth progression of powers and abilities -- you get random bonuses to Strength and Resistance and Defense and Agility, and it's not spaced out well or increasing at a predictable rate. </p><p></p><p>And to balance it out, I've had to re-examine treasure tables, think about how I'm going to balance the core classes, manipulate magic item types, and think about how treasure will work in FFZ. And then I separated Berserker and Beastmaster, and I unified the saves, and I did away with iterative attacks and figured out a multiple actions/round system. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To drop some hints, the magic system is point-based, and every character can make use of MP, from knights to magicians, to accomplish different things. There is only one "saving throw," and it's resolved more like an attack roll/AC set.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 2490049, member: 2067"] Thanks a lot for the scads of praise. It really helps me when I'm staring lines of wealth by level charts in the face. :) This is a question with a BIG answer. Let's say it starts with the DM structure of the game. Though I'm starting with player information, FFZ gives crazy love to DM's in setting up a unique kind of feel. And it does so in more detail than the core DMG. See, 3e was definately cautious about not telling particular DM's that they're "playing the game wrong" if they play it differently. FFZ, on the other hand, is not shy about telling DM's how to get what they want out of the game. And if they're playinng FFZ, there's a solid chance they want a table-top game that plays something like a Final Fantasy game. So advice includes story structure, villain design, monster placement, job and tribe choices...in effect, it helps you to make selections for your game that reinforce a particular theme, depending on the campaign you're going for. And how every encounter should reinforce the ideas that are central to your campaign. In FFZ, there are no truly "random" encounters. Every monster has a motive to exist, and a cause behind its violent attacks. So that random ogre ambush on the side of the road doesn't just exist to roll some dice around -- it exists to show, for instance, how a typical giantish society operates. And later in the game, as you become diplomatic emmisarries to the giants, this ambush becomes important material for your characters to know. Aside from solid and reliable DM advice (which I'm rediculously proud of -- making DM's think extensively about every die roll they ask the players to make), there is the fact that character choices come from the concepts. Mechanics are chosen to support these ideas. When you get a +1 to attack, the origin and development of your character and the world is expanded on. There is a reason you are better than you were beyond "I beat up more goblins." For some D&D games that would be too much micro-management, but FFZ liberates players and DM's to consider this kind of thing, because the measurable powers of the character are largely accounted for in the job. If you're not managing equipment and assigning various bonses, that's an extra few minutes in play that you have to build relationships and explore motives. This is especially important for the DM, who has to crunch the most numbers anyway. The mechanics of FFZ have been simplified as much as possible -- there's even an option for completely abstract combat (for the best videogame feel). When playing an FF game, number-crunching is something the computer does for you. In playing FFZ, number-crunching is what you do before you get to the table, more or less. Combine that with multiple characters, easy resurrection, and (from the DM's side) story structure, building alternate worlds, making the heroes heroic, "glossing over the boring parts," sidequest and main-quest structures, and you've got something that isn't about getting a huge bonus (or at least, a huge bonus is kind of pointless when a pretty big bonus gets the job done just as easily), and is more about the characters and the world, and not so much about the fights and the stuff. The biggest struggle is one between versimilitude and ease of play. Like, I referenced the abstract combat system above. This works great in a videogame, and makes table-top combats flow quickly and easily, but realistic, it ain't. Tactics are minimal. "Odd battlefields" are known in metagame to be special. And what this gains in ease, it surrenders by taking the players out of the world and into the knowledge that they're playing a game. That's why abstract combat is optional, rather than core. It's an example of something that, to make it more like Final Fantasy, you would have to give up something that made it a table-top RPG (namely, tactical, battlefield fighting). Minigames have also been a bit odd. Button-mashing, timing games, and tetra master don't translate to tabletop too well. It's possible, but to accomplish it, you'd have to bring in other things. Want to stop in the middle of your game session and play a hand of poker? Or go outside and run a race? While this certainly captures a "final fantasy feel," it kind of compromises the "table-top RPG" feel. I'm sure there are others, but those two stand out at me. :) I'm a notorious control freak about this project. Because it's really easy to get bogged down in discussions of how it should be done, and then nothing ends up actually getting done. :) I'd rather make a choice and go back and correct it later than talk about what choice I should make in comitee for a week before going ahead with it. :p Currently I'm working out how I'm representing the bonuses that jobs gain instead of treasure, and how I want the gil/level chart to work. In D&D, characters gain about 30% more wealth at each level, which leaves the low levels too poor to afford any bells and whistles, but leaves the higher levels rediculously well-enhanced. I can't get fire damage at 4th level, but by 40th I'll be lucky if I can find enough powers to give 'em! The problem is that it increases exponentially in D&D, while in FF, it's a more linear progression of power to power. Paired with that is the desire to keep it balanced with the core system -- making sure they ARE weak at 1st level, and strong at 40th. And then there's the fact that the bonuses just look *ugly* right now. There's not a smooth progression of powers and abilities -- you get random bonuses to Strength and Resistance and Defense and Agility, and it's not spaced out well or increasing at a predictable rate. And to balance it out, I've had to re-examine treasure tables, think about how I'm going to balance the core classes, manipulate magic item types, and think about how treasure will work in FFZ. And then I separated Berserker and Beastmaster, and I unified the saves, and I did away with iterative attacks and figured out a multiple actions/round system. :confused: To drop some hints, the magic system is point-based, and every character can make use of MP, from knights to magicians, to accomplish different things. There is only one "saving throw," and it's resolved more like an attack roll/AC set. [/QUOTE]
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