Fighter's shouldn't have to suck

[Caliban]

Depending on what sort of action the DM rules "Put second hand on weapon" to be.

I'd call it a free action, but in a recent thread, several people declared that since you're drawing the weapon from your right hand into both hands (!?), they'd require a Draw a Weapon action. Since you've loosened your shield while moving, a separate Draw a Weapon action would be another move action (absent Quick Draw).

-Hyp.

Ok...Not in any game I've ever played or run.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ok...Not in any game I've ever played or run.

I'm with you on that one

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

It's interesting cause you're experiencing more or less the dilemma our group faced some time ago. We felt that it wasn't so much Fighters (and melee in general) that sucked, but spellcasters were overpowered (a glass half-full/half-empty perception, which is fair). Ultimately our resolution was to just eliminate spellcasting altogether (except healing), as we were fed up with the lackluster performance of the Fighter-types, of which the entire group thought was too iconic to dismiss and do away with.

Strangely enough, the Fighter class has turned out to be one of the most powerful classes now as a result of the change. We've got three DM's in the group, and each one follows the no-spellcasting mechanic and the games have improved vastly for us since.

Alternatively, you can take a look at the Tome of Battle. It does the reverse of what we did by simply ramping up the power of melee classes to match that of full spellcasters.

Odd, in my home games and in the RPGA games I've played, it's generally been the opposite at higher levels - melee types are the king of damage output, with arcane casters generally being battle-field control and mop-up, while divine casters buff, heal and are backup tanks.

It may be a difference in campaign styels - in the RPGA the tendency is for a few powerful opponents rather than multiple intermediate strength opponents, and quite often you have 3-4 combats in single day with little or no warning before combat begins.

As a result, on more than one occasion my 14th level Sorcerer/Argent Savant has found it more advantageous to D-Door a couple of melee types 10 or 30 feet closer to our opponents so that they can get a full attack rather than doing an attack spell of his own. (Not that he can't lay on the damage when he has the need. Empowered force orbs, empowered sculpted fireballs, split empowered scorching rays, etc.)

And this is without using the Bo9S as a crutch.

 

[Darklone]

Odd, in my home games and in the RPGA games I've played, it's generally been the opposite at higher levels - melee types are the king of damage output, with arcane casters generally being battle-field control and mop-up, while divine casters buff, heal and are backup tanks.

Same here, I even experience this in my mostly low level games (around level 8). Spellcasters are good for AoE effects since the melee dudes usually can't Greatcleave through the mooks (my mooks are level 3-4) but if you need a lot of damage against a strong opponent, the fighters shine (archers or melee dudes, doesn't matter).

Even that fleshraker Dinosaur doesn't sound too bad without the mentioned buff spells (Mage Armor, Barkskin and something else for AC alone). That's not just one spell. Do your spellcasters buff your fighter in the same way? Barkskin and Bulls Strength at least? Prayer as soon as battle begins? Fly when you need it?

No?

Then that's your problem, not the fighterclass.

 

[mcgeedis]

It seems like most opinions are for the original poster to optimize his character more so he would be on a more even playing field as the spellcasters. But what about the optimized spellcasters? I agree with the original poster that D&D is definitely geared more toward the spellcaster. If not at the higher levels, at least for novice players that don't have access to 17 splatbooks.

The newer player is oftentimes encouraged to be a fighter because of ease of combat use (run toward monster/bad guy and swing your sword). But in the meantime, spellcasters have these spells that either do some zany effect on themselves or an enemy, or the drop 6d6 on to 4 or more baddies. So, for the newer player, I can see how I would feel slighted being the meat shield doing my 1d8+3 IF I was lucky enough to roll over my enemy's AC.

 

[satori01]

But what about the optimized spellcasters? I agree with the original poster that D&D is definitely geared more toward the spellcaster. If not at the higher levels, at least for novice players that don't have access to 17 splatbooks.

Except it is not, especially the higher you go. You may not like 1d8+3, but how about having you one Baleful Polymorph spell be resisted.
It is easier for Warriors to increase their attack bonus, and static damage output. At high levels it is all about multiple attacks and maximizing your static damage, which is impossible for spellcasters.


A warriors to hit roll does not have a saving throw, immunities, SR, Ranged Touch attacks, etc to contend with. Certain spells require a spellcaster to make 5 rolls to have an effect, and brother at high levels the monsters saving throws are through the roof, and there are not many ways to increace spell DCs.

3.5 is the Warriors edition!

 

[Ender_rpm]

3.5 is the Warriors edition!

And this is bad because?....

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

Even that fleshraker Dinosaur doesn't sound too bad without the mentioned buff spells (Mage Armor, Barkskin and something else for AC alone). That's not just one spell. Do your spellcasters buff your fighter in the same way? Barkskin and Bulls Strength at least? Prayer as soon as battle begins? Fly when you need it?

No?

Then that's your problem, not the fighterclass.

A) Your spellchuckers are selfish jerks, and you should talk to them about this.

B) While those caster goons are spending the first 4-5 rounds of a combat getting ready to actually fight, you should roll up with your two-handed weapon and kill the sucker before they're even ready. Won't that make them feel stupid? Start out with a power attacked charge and then wail on it with a couple of full attacks!