Experience Point Weirdness: Is my math funny or theirs?

[Nikosandros]

I believe that the progression is weird, so that it can be copyrighted.

3e progression was a simple mathematical formula and so it could be replicated by others even though it wasn't included in the SRD (see, for example, Mongoose pocket PHB).

 

[Xenomech]

I believe that the progression is weird, so that it can be copyrighted.

You can't copyright game rules. You can only copyright an "expression" of the rules (i.e. *how* rules are written). Anyone can legally publish their own players handbook just as long as they write everything in their own words.

 

[Ashardalon]

I think they fudged things inelegantly to hit 1000000. Look at the monster xp. Standard monster xp starts at 100 at 1st, adds 25 xp each level for 4 levels, and then doubles the amount added every 4 levels. Except at 22nd, where it's messed up as well.

From what I see, at 22nd level, it's the level 18 XP value doubled, then 150 xp added. At 23, the additional xp is 300, 450 at 24, 600 at 25, 700 at 26, 800 at 27, 900 at 28, and 1000 at 29 and higher levels. I have no idea where that progression comes from, but it seems there is some thought behind it.

 

[Nikosandros]

You can't copyright game rules. You can only copyright an "expression" of the rules (i.e. *how* rules are written). Anyone can legally publish their own players handbook just as long as they write everything in their own words.

The creators of OSRIC (a clone of AD&D 1st edition), who researched the issue extensively, decided to change the XP values in the tables.

 

[Xenomech]

The creators of OSRIC (a clone of AD&D 1st edition), who researched the issue extensively, decided to change the XP values in the tables.

The OSRIC "read me" document mentions the change in the XP tables in this manner:

In many cases you will find that rules themselves have been clarified, or are more based on the SRD than on original rules (when it was difficult to separate rules from artistic presentation). The greatest difference is in the experience progressions, and the inclusion of some random factors into the original level progression.​

I imagine the changes had nothing to do with copyright claims, since it's trivial to reformat a table of information to avoid duplicating "artistic presentation" (if even a basic tabular representation of information could be considered such, which common sense dictates it does not).

 

[Nikosandros]

I imagine the changes had nothing to do with copyright claims, since it's trivial to reformat a table of information to avoid duplicating "artistic presentation" (if even a basic tabular representation of information could be considered such, which common sense dictates it does not).

That's what it says officially...

 

[Elsidar]

So then if the purpose is to make breaking into a new tier more difficult/significant, why then is the level after reaching a new tier so much easier to attain than other levels in the same tier?

It doesn't seem to make much sense, and feels kinda sloppy. The four-level chunks of identical increases seem to work out on average looking at the XP values from 10 to 11 and 11 to 12, but it doesn't work the same way on levels 20 to 21 and 21 to 22.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

I think they wanted to make it a challenge to reach the new tier. . . but once you're there, wanted to 'catch you up' and get you into the new tier faster. Just a guess.

 

[keterys]

It makes decent enough sense. Also gives you more time to figure out what path/destiny you'll get and how you started it.

 

[Kaffis]

PC experience progression is based off of a fairly stable "encounters per level" metric, so it's very closely tied to the monster experience chart.

Monster experience is sort of funky because they decided they wanted experience to be the basis for mix-and-match encounters. So monster experience is linked to relative challenge.

Relative challenge links back to how powerful the characters are.

So there are a few cases where character power goes up dramatically... level 11 and 21, most notably. These influence monster relative challenge for the levels near them. This aberration in the otherwise fairly predictable relative challenge of monsters messes with how much experience monsters are worth around 11 and 21, which then gives you a funky experience/level chart when you apply the mostly fixed encounters/level conversion.

So their math is "funny," but that funniness appears to be deliberate and very carefully planned (and not random).