D&D 5E Ending movement in occupied square?

[Krachek]

If I just imagine the scene, the Ghoul will bump into the first line of the army and won’t go far. later he will be push forward.

Why caring about this specific ghoul when there is an army Of undead?

 

[Lanefan]

An easy answer is that the smoke does not matter and that RAW says they cannot end up in the same space, so the ghoul needs to stop moving before that. Some of the OPs words are confusing so forgive me, but if the ghoul is turned by the cleric and fleeing through the PCs' spaces is should just stop when it runs into a PC's space. Ultimately it should be moving away from the cleric which could have it move past a PC of bump into one passing through the space. This should trigger an opportunity attack, which would end the turned part. I guess the ghoul would be pushed back to the last square where the opportunity attack happened, but that may be last edition talking.

Re the bolded: that's only if the PC decides to make that attack, right, rather than just let the ghoul pass?

"Real life", and tactical movement on a grid are very different.

And in these instances, it's my firmly-held position that real life should win out.

Put another way: when the abstraction isn't helping any more, stop using it.

 

[kigmatzomat]

An easy answer is that the smoke does not matter and that RAW says they cannot end up in the same space, so the ghoul needs to stop moving before that.

RAW doesn't actually say they can't stop in another creature's square.

PHB Chapter 9 Movement

Moving Around Other Creatures​

....
Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.

Emphasis mine.

My example is the cleric turns the ghoul, which flees blindly into a mob of the ghoul's allies. it doesn't know that it won't find a free space because it can't see more than arm's length.

If I just imagine the scene, the Ghoul will bump into the first line of the army and won’t go far. later he will be push forward.

Why caring about this specific ghoul when there is an army Of undead?

Consider the reverse where an evil caster with blindsight casts Dissonant Whisper against a PC barbarian in the smoke cloud. The PC run away from the enemy caster but won't know exactly where their allies are and may blunder right in the middle of them at the end of their movement unwillingly.

Does the barbarian fall down or do they knock down the mage (lowest strength) or the halfling rogue (smallest) or do multiple PCs fall down? Does a anyone take damage? Could it break concentration?

 

[Lanefan]

Consider the reverse where an evil caster with blindsight casts Dissonant Whisper against a PC barbarian in the smoke cloud. The PC run away from the enemy caster but won't know exactly where their allies are and may blunder right in the middle of them at the end of their movement unwillingly.

Does the barbarian fall down or do they knock down the mage (lowest strength) or the halfling rogue (smallest) or do multiple PCs fall down? Does a anyone take damage? Could it break concentration?

Bowling With Barbarians, Saturday at 7 p.m. on ESPN!

 

[Krachek]

Consider the reverse where an evil caster with blindsight casts Dissonant Whisper against a PC barbarian in the smoke cloud. The PC run away from the enemy caster but won't know exactly where their allies are and may blunder right in the middle of them at the end of their movement unwillingly.

Does the barbarian fall down or do they knock down the mage (lowest strength) or the halfling rogue (smallest) or do multiple PCs fall down? Does a anyone take damage? Could it break concentration?

All those are classic takes for a nasty DM, but most players will required to have a chance to make an ability check or make a saving thrown before taking more punishment. The DM may refuse any check or save but then he place himself into the Bitch DM zone.

 

[jgsugden]

When the rules don't specify, tell the best story.

I find the best approach when the rules do not cover a situation is to just tell the most interesting story. If I think there is too much on the line for the DM to just make a decision that essentially controls the overall outcome, I roll percentile dice and have the outcome favor the PCs more on a higher roll, or disadvantage them on a lower roll.

If I felt like the rules did not cover your scenarion, I'd probably not bother with the roll because the ghouls are turned and are unlikely to pose much of a threat at that point. I'd just find the closest empty space and shove them into it and say that the ghouls are crashing into each other within the smoke where the PCs can't see them. Why is that the "best story" in my eyes? Because it is resolved fast which is one of my primary goals when something is not going to significantly contribute to the story going forward.

 

[Gorck]

RAW doesn't actually say they can't stop in another creature's square.


Emphasis mine.

My example is the cleric turns the ghoul, which flees blindly into a mob of the ghoul's allies. it doesn't know that it won't find a free space because it can't see more than arm's length.



Consider the reverse where an evil caster with blindsight casts Dissonant Whisper against a PC barbarian in the smoke cloud. The PC run away from the enemy caster but won't know exactly where their allies are and may blunder right in the middle of them at the end of their movement unwillingly.

Does the barbarian fall down or do they knock down the mage (lowest strength) or the halfling rogue (smallest) or do multiple PCs fall down? Does a anyone take damage? Could it break concentration?

My personal adjudication would be to have all players involved in the collision make either an Acrobatics or Athletics check (probably with disadvantage because they don’t see the collision about to happen). Those that fail are knocked prone. Those that succeed either absorb the impact (Acrobatics- roll with it like a slippery eel) or withstand the impact (Athletics- endure it like a brick wall). As for the DC of the checks, that’s where I struggle as a DM, but I’d probably say in the 15-20 range.

 

[Oofta]

Unrelated to OP's specific scenario, what do people rule when a flying creature stops flying over an enemy creature's square, or jumps at an enemy's square, or is thrown into an enemy's square?

Flies over is not occupying the same square, but any involuntary movement (falling, being pushed, whatever) still has the same rules. You can't normally occupy the same space so you stop moving before you enter the square or, if coming from above, you randomly get to a legal spot.

Once in a great while I'll go back to squeezing or if someone throws the dwarf at the elf there's the possibility of the elf being pushed back to make room for the dwarf but that's rare and situational.

 

[Oofta]

RAW doesn't actually say they can't stop in another creature's square.


Emphasis mine.

My example is the cleric turns the ghoul, which flees blindly into a mob of the ghoul's allies. it doesn't know that it won't find a free space because it can't see more than arm's length.



Consider the reverse where an evil caster with blindsight casts Dissonant Whisper against a PC barbarian in the smoke cloud. The PC run away from the enemy caster but won't know exactly where their allies are and may blunder right in the middle of them at the end of their movement unwillingly.

Does the barbarian fall down or do they knock down the mage (lowest strength) or the halfling rogue (smallest) or do multiple PCs fall down? Does a anyone take damage? Could it break concentration?

The ghoul, or the barbarian, doesn't need to know anything, only the DM. As I said, occasionally I'll allow squeezing. So imagine trying to push your way through a crowd and there's just no give. It doesn't matter whether you can see an opening on the other side or not, your movement is blocked by a wall of bodies.

The 5 foot square a medium creature "occupies" is really a generalization for combat purposes. Get a tape measure, mark off a 5 foot square somewhere and move around inside of it a bit. Imagine swinging a sword, throwing punches, dodging or deflecting attacks. It would take something like a 5 foot square in order to do that in many cases without being hindered.

There are obviously real world exceptions like a phalanx of soldiers in battle formation, but D&D isn't trying to model that and it generalizes for simplicity.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

You just move the creature in the direction you want them to run. If they end their turn in another creature's space, back them up a number of spaces until you find an unoccupied square. I never move them to an unoccupied square further than their movement.

The narrative fluff is they are bumping and jostling with creatures in front of them and fail to make appropriate progress.

This is mostly an issue with minis. With TotM, you can just say they move away.