Effects - do they require a successful hit to work?

[Patlin]

Also, please note that "effect" is a term of art in 4e. If the power says "Effect:" the listed effect happens on a hit or a miss. If it says "Hit:" that's not called an effect and whatever comes after only happens on a hit.

 

[balard]

There is a swordmage power that has two effect: lines. I interpret the order of the line to be the actual order of the power.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Dimensional Thunder?

If you're talking about Dimensional Thunder, I interpret that as having an effect before the attack and an effect after the attack.

Effect: Teleport a number of squares equal to your Constitution modifier.
Hit: 2[W] + Intelligence modifier thunder damage.
Effect: Each enemy adjacent to you gains ongoing 5 thunder damage (save ends).

So (EFFECT 1 ) you teleport, (HIT OR MISS) attack, and (EFFECT 2) each enemy adjacent to you (post-teleport) takes the ongoing damage.

 

[stonegod]

There is a swordmage power that has two effect: lines. I interpret the order of the line to be the actual order of the power.

MP has a few powers like that for Bravura warlords (the 1st level daily comes to mind). Order there matters.

 

[DracoSuave]

Effect: type stuff will work regardless of attack rolls. Utility powers -require- it to work this way.
Hit: type stuff only works when you roll the successful hit.
Secondary Hit: type stuff works only if you hit with the secondary attack.
Secondary Effect: type stuff doesn't exist, as it would be part of the Hit: line.

All of these are still called effects, and things that affect effects are still effective.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

Here is an example, level 5 Rogue power:

Clever Riposte​

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Rogue Attack 5​

You follow up a fierce attack with a series of quick, painful strikes
woven between your enemy’s attacks.​

Daily​

✦ Martial,Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon​

Requirement:​

You must be wielding a light blade.​

Target:​

One creature​

Attack:​

Dexterity vs. AC​

Hit:​

2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, the target takes damage
equal to your Dexterity modifier each time it attacks you, and
you can shift as an immediate reaction after such an attack.


Does the player have to hit in order for the effect to take place?​

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

No. It is a separate effect that happens regardless of hit or miss.

 

[Bodhiwolff]

We've been having this same discussion about "Stinking Cloud".

Stinking Cloud​

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Wizard Attack 5​

You call forth a thick cloud of bilious yellow vapors. The foul
fumes overwhelm any creature within.​

Daily​

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✦ Arcane, Implement, Poison, Zone
Standard Action Area burst 2 within 20 squares​

Target:​

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Each creature in burst​

Attack:​

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Intelligence vs. Fortitude​

Hit:​

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1d10 + Intelligence modifier poison damage.​

Effect:​

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The burst creates a zone of poisonous vapor that
blocks line of sight until the end of your next turn. Creatures
that enter the zone or start their turns there take 1d10 +
Intelligence modifier poison damage. As a move action, you
can move the zone up to 6 squares.​

Sustain Minor: The zone persists.

So, it has a burst attack to hit the initial targets, Int. vs. Fort, to do 1d10+INT damage.

However, the lingering effect of the cloud can do similar damage to creatrures who (a) enter the zone, or (b) start in the zone.

The effect listing comes after the hit listing, so it seems, if one is reading strictly, that you need to have the attack hit something in order for the cloud to activate.

However, after much back-and-forth we've decided that it probably doesn't work that way. The immediate damage on a "hit" reflects whether somebody is struck when the spell is first cast (perhaps they breathe in just at that moment, and thus it is a test vs. fortitude).

But it seems possible to simply cast the spell, without a target creature, in order to create the cloud and have it around for later in the encounter (assuming that you spend the minor action to always sustain it).

Thoughts?

 

[Hypersmurf]

The effect listing comes after the hit listing, so it seems, if one is reading strictly, that you need to have the attack hit something in order for the cloud to activate.

No, because the description of the Effect entry on PHB p59 specifically states "Many powers produce effects that take place regardless of whether your attack roll succeeds, and other powers have effects that occur without an attack roll being required."

But it seems possible to simply cast the spell, without a target creature, in order to create the cloud and have it around for later in the encounter (assuming that you spend the minor action to always sustain it).

Right. Close and Area powers happen, and any creature matching the target criteria who happens to be in the wrong place becomes a target. Melee and Ranged attacks require you to specify the target of the attack before the attack can occur (though see Choosing Targets, p272, for the exception).

-Hyp.

 

[DracoSuave]

Indeed. Area and close will tell you if it's one creature or many in the area of effect, and if, as with this one, it says each _____ in burst, then zero targets IS a viable choice.