D&D 2E Edition Experience - Did/Do you Play AD&D 2E? How Was/Is It?

[AbdulAlhazred]

Bard Spell spellcasting...some rule they can in armor...as long as it is...

Elven Chain...

Very plausible to have at higher levels.

Bards were pretty good in AD&D 2e. Got depowered by a LOT in 3e.

PS: One of the BEST spells a Bard could cast on an unprepared Magic-User in the first round was Color Spray. Have to win initiative and then you have a possibility of having ended that battle right then and there.

Or sleep, or magic missile, or etc. depending on what level you are. of course it works equally well in the opposite direction, and by 2e rules the mage/wizard is much more likely to have the correct spell in his book.

As for Elven Chain... yeah, maybe. Assuming the DM rules that it actually works in this situation and that it works for non-elves (if you aren't one) and that some elf ninjas aren't after you in that case, and he makes some available. I agree it is not entirely implausible to hope for.

Anyway, at high levels you probably can get bracers, rings, robes, cloaks, stoneskin, etc. so AC becomes less of a really big deal. One big huge problem is that bards do not get any ability to use wizard-specific magic items, which means no rods, staves, or wands. They can use 'thief only' items I guess, though even this is rather ambiguous. Presumably their 'may use any weapon' extends to magical versions. This is a big limitation vs wizards, huge really at higher levels when things like Staff of Power might be in play.

 

[GreyLord]

Or sleep, or magic missile, or etc. depending on what level you are. of course it works equally well in the opposite direction, and by 2e rules the mage/wizard is much more likely to have the correct spell in his book.

The BIG advantage of Color Spray over Sleep is if you have a DM that interprets the rules as written (rather than guessing at what may have been intended). Rules as written, even at a high level (let's just say...20th) it is a one hit knock out if the Magic-user fails their save.

The spell specifies anyone of a less level than the spellcaster is knocked out if they fail their save. Lesser penalties if they are a higher level.

Some read it that anyone over 6th level is not knocked out, but that isn't how it's written...

Which makes the spell itself an overly powerful one for Bards...

Magic Missile is dependable, but won't knock out the Magic-User as quickly as Color Spray in that case...though it is a mighty big gamble...Saves also get easier to make at high levels...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The BIG advantage of Color Spray over Sleep is if you have a DM that interprets the rules as written (rather than guessing at what may have been intended). Rules as written, even at a high level (let's just say...20th) it is a one hit knock out if the Magic-user fails their save.

The spell specifies anyone of a less level than the spellcaster is knocked out if they fail their save. Lesser penalties if they are a higher level.

Some read it that anyone over 6th level is not knocked out, but that isn't how it's written...

Which makes the spell itself an overly powerful one for Bards...

Magic Missile is dependable, but won't knock out the Magic-User as quickly as Color Spray in that case...though it is a mighty big gamble...Saves also get easier to make at high levels...

MM does enough damage on average to knock out a wizard at low levels, and the 100% hit with no save makes it a pretty good spell for that purpose (it is otherwise rather mediocre though, but you may not have better options). Once you get to casting 3rd or 4th level spells there are solid strategies to deal with enemy casters. Walls are quite effective since they are not direct attacks they generally side-step saves. Bringing the roof down with some lightning, again avoids save problems. There are quite a few similar tricks. Push and any sort of convenient precipice is a no-brainer. Any spell that creates slippery conditions will prevent casting if you go strictly by the general casting rules, and there are a few of those (Grease is a pretty good spell). Stuff like Tasha's is also pretty solid. Of course Color Spray takes up a low level slot and I agree it is one of the better options. Back in AD&D days I was rather known for 'Advanced Casting Tactics', hehe.

 

[Voadam]

Yeah, I thought it was a reasonably solid class. The toughest comparison is really with the Elf mage/thief. Yes, you're a bit more than a level ahead, maybe even 2.5 to 3 levels ahead in a few spots, but the MC character can wear armor and cast spells, which is pretty nice. Plus they have ALL the thief abilities (and are better at most of them even with the level difference). Again, its a toss up, and the bard abilities are definitely worth having.

An Elven mage/thief could use elven chain, but otherwise RAW that was it.

"Wizard: A multi-classed wizard can freely combine the powers of the wizard with any other class allowed, although the wearing of armor is restricted. Elves wearing elven chain can cast spells in armor, as magic is part of the nature of elves. However, elven chain is extremely rare and can never be purchased. It must be given, found, or won."

This is under multiclassed benefits, and bards in 2e could not be multiclassed, and it did not apply to single classed elven wizards.

"In his travels, a bard also manages to learn a few wizard spells. Like a wizard, a bard’s Intelligence determines the number of spells he can know and the chance to know any given spell. These he keeps in his spell book, abiding by all the restrictions on memorization and spell use that bind a wizard, especially in the prohibition of armor."

Worth noting that bards are not a class open to full elves in the 2e PH.

 

[Starfox]

Yeah, I thought it was a reasonably solid class. The toughest comparison is really with the Elf mage/thief....

We had a lot of those in 1E! Not so much in 2E.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

An Elven mage/thief could use elven chain, but otherwise RAW that was it.

"Wizard: A multi-classed wizard can freely combine the powers of the wizard with any other class allowed, although the wearing of armor is restricted. Elves wearing elven chain can cast spells in armor, as magic is part of the nature of elves. However, elven chain is extremely rare and can never be purchased. It must be given, found, or won."

This is under multiclassed benefits, and bards in 2e could not be multiclassed, and it did not apply to single classed elven wizards.

"In his travels, a bard also manages to learn a few wizard spells. Like a wizard, a bard’s Intelligence determines the number of spells he can know and the chance to know any given spell. These he keeps in his spell book, abiding by all the restrictions on memorization and spell use that bind a wizard, especially in the prohibition of armor."

Worth noting that bards are not a class open to full elves in the 2e PH.

Ah, yes, the ins and outs of slight differences between 1e and 2e. 1e MC magic users can cast in any type of armor. That was one of their outstanding benefits.

 

[Starfox]

As for Elven Chain...

On 1E, the best AC was actually Bracers + ring of protection. The bonus of magic armor and rings of protection did not stack, but bracers and ring did. I think this was also true in 2E, but I am not sure.

 

[GreyLord]

An Elven mage/thief could use elven chain, but otherwise RAW that was it.

"Wizard: A multi-classed wizard can freely combine the powers of the wizard with any other class allowed, although the wearing of armor is restricted. Elves wearing elven chain can cast spells in armor, as magic is part of the nature of elves. However, elven chain is extremely rare and can never be purchased. It must be given, found, or won."

This is under multiclassed benefits, and bards in 2e could not be multiclassed, and it did not apply to single classed elven wizards.

"In his travels, a bard also manages to learn a few wizard spells. Like a wizard, a bard’s Intelligence determines the number of spells he can know and the chance to know any given spell. These he keeps in his spell book, abiding by all the restrictions on memorization and spell use that bind a wizard, especially in the prohibition of armor."

Worth noting that bards are not a class open to full elves in the 2e PH.

Elven Chain Mail

(From DMG...revised 241)
This is magical armor so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without revealing its presence. Its lightness and flexibility allow even BARDS and THIEVES to use it with few restrictions. Elven fighter/mages use it without restriction, however, it is rarely sized to fit anyone other than an elf or a half-elf.

Bolded words were not bolded in text, I put the bolding in there to point it out. Also, note, you had a 20% chance of getting man-sized elven chain if you found it, but Half-Elves could also be Bards.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

On 1E, the best AC was actually Bracers + ring of protection. The bonus of magic armor and rings of protection did not stack, but bracers and ring did. I think this was also true in 2E, but I am not sure.

Right, I think that is true. I know my high level 1e wizard had Bracers of AC 2, high Dex, and a +2 ring of protection. He was pretty close to the fighters AC. Stoneskin, a Robe of Eyes, and a Cloak of Displacement, plus of course pretty much obligatory invisibility and the ability to fly in most situations, the only way he got hit with a spell was if it was an AoE, or some stupidly powerful being was involved, like a post-D&D demon lord. I am not 100% sure if we really vetted all this out with the 2e rules or not, since a lot of this stuff was just carried over. I suspect it did work though.

Anyway, once your casters get past name level and have hoovered up the remains of a few fallen comrades, they get to be pretty stupid powerful.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Anyway, once your casters get past name level and have hoovered up the remains of a few fallen comrades, they get to be pretty stupid powerful.

Players Option: Cannibalism & Necromancy is my favorite of the 2e splats.