ECL, Feats and Ability Increases...

[Jack Haggerty]

So, say I want to make a 5th level character using a +3 ECL race.

He would only have two class levels (pretend he's a 2nd level Rogue), but five (effective) character levels. Does this mean he gets a (3rd level) feat and an (4th level) ability increase, or not?

 

[Negative Zero]

altho i claim a whole bunch of ignorance on the matter, here's my guesstimation:

the ECL is just what it says, i.e. effective, not actual levels. so regardless of ECL, you're still a 2nd lvl character. no feat. no stat increase.

~NegZ

 

[Soldarin]

Use HD equals character level for everything except starting gold, starting xp and level advancement (for which you use ECL). This includes feat gains and ability increases, as well as max skill ranks and many other things.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Use HD equals character level for everything except starting gold, starting xp and level advancement (for which you use ECL). This includes feat gains and ability increases, as well as max skill ranks and many other things.

That is not exactly correct. Monster HD do not count.

Per FRCS, use ECL for starting gold and exp, and class levels for feats and ability increases.

 

[smetzger]

That is not exactly correct. Monster HD do not count.

Per FRCS, use ECL for starting gold and exp, and class levels for feats and ability increases.

Actually....
You can get more feats depending on the monster. If you are an advanced specimen than its possible that you get another feat.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

That is correct. You get the same number of feats the monster would get. But that is different than the question.

 

[Darkness]

Yeah. And if the race you chose gets a few bonus feats, you can end up with more feats than a character of your (total) level, LOL.

 

[thundershot]

?

I thought it was the total HD (or maybe I'm just delusional right now).

If you have a 2 HD creature, with one level of Fighter, wouldn't they get what the creature gets, plus what the level of the character gets? i.e. you're 3 HD, so you should get an extra feat (bad example, since a 1st level character gets a feat too). So what's the way it's supposed to be? I know ECL doesn't count as your total level, but I thought HD do.


Thanks
Chris

 

[Radius]

RE:

Only character levels count towards feats and ability score increases. However, if you take a monster as your "race", you get the feats and skills that the monster would normally have in addition to the feats and skills you later get by taking character class levels.

For example, a minotaur is an ECL 8 critter according to the DMG. If you were a minotaur / fighter 2 you would get Great Fortitude and Power Attack because minotaurs get those feats. You would also get 3 feats for being a 2nd level fighter.

 

[Soldarin]

OK, in more detail:

Gaining new feats and ability increases
For races with one or less HD this works exactly the same as for the standard races. For races with more than one HD this is not the case. For such PCs you use total number of HD to determine whether or not a PC should get a NEW feat or ability increase (do not use the HD equals character level retroactively). The number of feats gained from monster levels is already determined, as are ability increases (subsumed in the racial adjustments). If, after adding a class level to such a monster PC, the total number of HD is divisible by 3, the PC gains a new feat. The same goes for ability increases, when the number of HD is divisible by 4.
A 14 HD Stone Giant PC gets 4 feats (a giant starts with 1 feat and gains 1 per 4 EHD, he has 12 EHD), not 5. After gaining 1 class level, he has 15 HD, which is divisible by 3, so he gains a new feat. Adding another level brings him to 16 HD, divisible by 4, so he gets an ability increase.