Double Move and Hide

[dr_nukem]

I'm looking for a concensus of how a Double Move with Hide should be handled.

In our group, we have agreed that the following can be done in one round:

Move & Attack (duh, MEA and Std Action)
Move 1/2 base speed hiding & Attack (again, MEA & Std Act, no penalty to the hide check & std act).
Move up to base speed hiding & attack (MEA with a -5 penalty to the check & std act)
Move & Move (Double Move)

Some quotes from our discussion:

"...the fact that performing a Double Move is a Full Round action. which I have allowed to be used with hide but am going to
insist on the -5 penalty for each check...

...The way to look at it is assess distance (which the game calls SPEED) moved in the FULL ROUND and the checks are made with those modifiers (no matter how you want to split it up)...

...Performing a double movement of a total of 1/2 up to Full amount of speed: -5 on each check. If one fails, they both fail..."

and

"...Double Move is essentially a Move-Move action. In this case moving 1/2 your base speed twice in one round should not incur a penalty...

...if the defender wins the first opposed roll, then the PC is spotted and incurs any penalty associated with being seen (AoO, alerting guards, etc). However, if he then moves and hides (assume possible cover) and wins the opposed check, the guard no longer know's where he's at and can not see him..."

With that in mind, how would you rule on a double move?

 

[Gromm]

The guard can probably figure where hes at. If you stab me and then try to hide behind a bush, you can bet I'll go over to the bush and kill him.
It really depends on the situation, in most cases its nearly impossible to hide again after being spotted (unless your a Shadowdancer). As far as the double move just handle it by the rules (-5 penalty- sure its move-move, but its also moving more than your speed in a single round).

 

[Kershek]

I like this one:

...Performing a double movement of a total of 1/2 up to Full amount of speed: -5 on each check. If one fails, they both fail..."


This one is incorrect:

"...Double Move is essentially a Move-Move action. In this case moving 1/2 your base speed twice in one round should not incur a penalty...

If your move is 30 feet, you have to move half that (15 feet) to not incur a penalty. Therefore, if you do a double move without a penalty, that would have to be 15+15=30 feet.

 

[hong]

I would say two Hide checks, at -5 each. If you fail the first one, the guard knows you're there, even if you then make the second one.

 

[Black Omega]

Eh, just go with the -5 from the rules. Or if you feel mean two -5's, one for each move action. The PC is sacrificing aloty of speed while trying to stay in the shadows or otherwise under cover.

 

[dr_nukem]

This one is incorrect:

"...Double Move is essentially a Move-Move action. In this case moving 1/2 your base speed twice in one round should not incur a penalty...

If your move is 30 feet, you have to move half that (15 feet) to not incur a penalty. Therefore, if you do a double move without a penalty, that would have to be 15+15=30 feet.

I'm confused here. Initially you're saying a 1/2 move + 1/2 move is incorrect (ie, you don't agree with it) but then your example of 15+15=30 is just that?

1/2 movement = 15' -- first move action
1/2 movement = 15' -- second move action
total distance covered -- 30'

Originally posted by Hong
I would say two Hide checks, at -5 each. If you fail the first one, the guard knows you're there, even if you then make the second one.

But why? If the PC has Hide in Plain Sight or simply moves around a corner then hides again, why should this second hide attempt automatically fail?

Originally posted by Gromm
...(-5 penalty- sure its move-move, but its also moving more than your speed in a single round)...

I would agree with that, except the PC is sacrificing 1/2 of his total movement for the round to avoid the check penalty. If the PC (base speed 30') did a double hide move of 60', then sure, whack 'em with the -5 penalty. However, what if the PC only moves a total of 30' in that Double Move (1/2 base + 1/2 base)? He's given up 30' of movement (1/2 possible total) to be sneaky...shouldn't he be rewarded (ie, no penalty) for that?

 

[hong]

I would agree with that, except the PC is sacrificing 1/2 of his total movement for the round to avoid the check penalty. If the PC (base speed 30') did a double hide move of 60', then sure, whack 'em with the -5 penalty. However, what if the PC only moves a total of 30' in that Double Move (1/2 base + 1/2 base)? He's given up 30' of movement (1/2 possible total) to be sneaky...shouldn't he be rewarded (ie, no penalty) for that?

Ah, right, I see where you're coming from.

A double move is a "hustle". It's a brisk trot or jog, not a walk. Your character isn't "giving up 30' of movement", he's gaining 15' of movement compared to how far he could normally move in a round, if he wants to be silent.

Move 30' silently: 1 check at -5
Move 30' silently and attack: 1 check at -5

Mind you, all this only becomes important when you're actually counting rounds (ie, battle has started). Unless the rogue is in a situation where time is critical, he could just take his time to get into position, which wouldn't incur any movement penalties.

 

[dr_nukem]

While I might have been wavering in my stance on this (it's my rogue, go figure which ruling I was supporting), that description of a double move just did it.

Check and Mate

Thanks.